Delayed

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Yellowsevenpot
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Delayed

Post by Yellowsevenpot » Mon May 23, 2016 7:00 pm

Hey all,

I recently purchased 2 firearms from egunner. I used tier 1 as my ffl. I was delayed. I was talking to the owner on the phone who stated that he doesn't release firearms unless he gets a proceed from NICS; even if the ten days has passed. My question is how long can one be delayed? Has anyone ever had to appeal a delay? Has anyone had a ffl return a firearm to an online dealer?

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Re: Delayed

Post by bladebum » Mon May 23, 2016 7:15 pm

Handguns or long guns? How long has it been delayed?
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Re: Delayed

Post by Yellowsevenpot » Mon May 23, 2016 7:27 pm

A couple.38 special revolvers. It has not been long, just over a week. I am fairly certain that it will click to proceed anyday. The conversation just got me thinking. I have been delayed 5 or 6 times, never considering that one could be delayed indefinitely. Matt informed me that he once got a call three years after releasing a firearm reporting g that the individual was not eligible.

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Re: Delayed

Post by italydad » Mon May 23, 2016 7:40 pm

State law, and you may have to look this one up, says a dealer can release after 5 days of a delay. Walmart does the same thing from what I understand.
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Re: Delayed

Post by Yellowsevenpot » Mon May 23, 2016 8:00 pm

I understand I 594 changed it to 10 days, and then it is up to the ffl. However many will not unless they get a proceed from what I hear.

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Re: Delayed

Post by bladebum » Mon May 23, 2016 8:33 pm

Yellowsevenpot wrote:I understand I 594 changed it to 10 days, and then it is up to the ffl. However many will not unless they get a proceed from what I hear.
Welcome to I594 land. Pistols can make it more difficult however, the 10 business day rule should apply for release unless the sheriff/chief has a reason (cause) to delay.
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx ... e#9.41.090
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Re: Delayed

Post by Airon » Tue May 24, 2016 4:30 am

bladebum wrote:
Yellowsevenpot wrote:I understand I 594 changed it to 10 days, and then it is up to the ffl. However many will not unless they get a proceed from what I hear.
Welcome to I594 land. Pistols can make it more difficult however, the 10 business day rule should apply for release unless the sheriff/chief has a reason (cause) to delay.
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx ... e#9.41.090
I think the issue here more than 594 is Tier 1's policy to not release a firearm until a proceed is given by NICS. Something to think about when doing transactions if you are prone to delays.

In my opinion, the 3 days (10 in WA for a pistol) is ample time to figure out if you are prohibited and the release of the weapon after that period (aka the Charleston loophole by democrats) is written in specifically to keep the government from denying your rights indefinitely and I would only deal with FFLs that agree.

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Re: Delayed

Post by bladebum » Tue May 24, 2016 5:35 am

Both Federal and State laws have time limits in place for delays unless they can show good cause for the delay. I would hope that a FFL would not place additional restrictions above and beyond those stated laws (and I would be greatly surprised if they did) as that would surely open a legal can of worms for them. Since we don't have all the details, maybe Matt will chime in here and give us his take on all of this. Also, if a person is getting delayed often, a UPN (personal I D number with the Feds) might be in order. :)


9.41.092
Licensed dealer deliveries—Background checks.

Except as otherwise provided in this chapter, a licensed dealer may not deliver any firearm to a purchaser or transferee until the earlier of:
(1) The results of all required background checks are known and the purchaser or transferee is not prohibited from owning or possessing a firearm under federal or state law; or
(2) Ten business days have elapsed from the date the licensed dealer requested the background check. However, for sales and transfers of pistols if the purchaser or transferee does not have a valid permanent Washington driver's license or state identification card or has not been a resident of the state for the previous consecutive ninety days, then the time period in this subsection shall be extended from ten business days to sixty days.
[2015 c 1 § 4 (Initiative Measure No. 594, approved November 4, 2014).]
NOTES:
Finding—2015 c 1 (Initiative Measure No. 594): See note following RCW 9.41.010.
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Re: Delayed

Post by Yellowsevenpot » Tue May 24, 2016 11:43 am

An interesting dialectic here indeed. I know I qualify to purchase firearms, I own plenty... hell just to have my jobs requires a cleaner background than it does to buy a firearm. So on one hand I feel the ffl should release the firearm after the ten days per the written law, on the other I would be pissed as an ffl if I were to turn over a gun to a bad guy simply because the bureaucracy didnt work fast enough to determine that they were in fact not able to own a firearm.

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Re: Delayed

Post by Yellowsevenpot » Tue May 24, 2016 11:47 am

With any luck this will just have been a mental pursuit and a proceed will be coming my way soon. After researching it some I sure as heck fire do not want to have to file a vuntary appeal, it sounds like a mess of a process.

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Re: Delayed

Post by bladebum » Tue May 24, 2016 5:13 pm

Matt and his crew are top notch people and I'm sure that this will all work out. After doing a little more research today, I found out that a FFL can error on the side of caution and are not required to release the pistol on the 11th business day if the Feds or the State fails to give the ok to proceed. A denial is a done dead deal however. Most FFL's will release soon after the waiting period as they know that an excessive delay is not their fault and that they have followed all the govt's rules. If this gets too messed up, there is a local ATF office that may be of help. :)
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Re: Delayed

Post by Yellowsevenpot » Tue May 24, 2016 6:12 pm

I have been very satisfied with Tier 1, so I hope this didnt come off like I am not. They really worked with my girlfriend in selling her a gun, and put some work in in finding me a .45 colt blackhawk with a 7 and 1/2 inch barrel (I did find it else where however). Their help was why I went with them rather than ffls I have used in the past.

After hearing his policy I can certainly see why one would chose to not release a firearm without a proceed. I can also see why one would chose to work with an ffl that releases on the 11th day.

So in posting on other forums I have yet to interact with anyone who has personally had an extended delay or had gone through the voluntary appeal process.

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Re: Delayed

Post by scrappy » Tue May 24, 2016 6:20 pm

Wouldn't this be perhaps seen as an infringement of our rights? Unless I am mistaken amendment 2 ends with the words "..shall not be infringed." I know with a dealer we have to jump through these hoops with new gun sales, but come on! This must be changed! But it won't be unless we become very vocal with our legislators demanding it. Like with CCP's the law reads that they "shall issue" if there is no cause for denial. If they don't them we are within our rights to demand they do.
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Re: Delayed

Post by Yellowsevenpot » Wed May 25, 2016 4:51 am

One could also say that two snub nose .38 special revolvers could / would not leave me as well armed and lacking in ability to foster security of the state.

However, I see it as a local business whose values promote both the 2nd amendment and saftey in the community.

I also see the NICS delay policy as lacking and am interested in how the VAF policy funtions for Joe or Joanna Sixpack.

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Re: Delayed

Post by bladebum » Wed Jun 01, 2016 5:39 am

Any updates? :)
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Re: Delayed

Post by Tier 1 » Wed Jun 01, 2016 11:12 am

Yellowsevenpot, We legally cannot release a pistol per RCW 9.41.092 until 10 business days have elapsed. Today is the 10th day so tomorrow (June 2nd) you can pick up your firearms.

FFL dealers are not required to release a firearm even after the Brady laws 3 days or Washington's 10 days. It becomes a case by case basis that is left up to the discretion of the FFL.

It is very rare for this long of a delay to happen. In my experience most of these situations has resulted in a call from the ATF asking if we had released the firearm because the individual was no longer able to own a firearm.

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Re: Delayed

Post by bladebum » Wed Jun 01, 2016 5:57 pm

Thanks Matt for the update and the info. :)
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Re: Delayed

Post by scrappy » Wed Jun 01, 2016 7:08 pm

Tier1 thanks for that clear update. Sounds to me like you care about customer service. That's all to rare these days.
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It is good to live in a depraved time, as one can appear virtuous at little cost.

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