Change the 24 caliber min in washington

[hunter399]

I'm trying to change the 24 cal. Min to any centerfire rifle,all the other states in the Pacific northwest allow it and we should have it too.please email Scott bird
Rules.Coordinator@dfw.wa.gov
I need as many emails as I can get before Jan.1, just Tell him that u would like to hunt deer with 223 , and reasons why u think it could be deer cal.

[Rigger28]

I'm trying to change the 24 cal. Min to any centerfire rifle,all the other states in the Pacific northwest allow it and we should have it too.please email Scott bird
Rules.Coordinator@dfw.wa.gov
I need as many emails as I can get before Jan.1, just Tell him that u would like to hunt deer with 223 , and reasons why u think it could be deer cal.

I fully agree with you, and I hate almost any rule the government imposes but I'm a little concerned about the phrase "any centerfire". That would open the door for hunters to use cartridges like the .17 Remington, .17 Remington Fireball, .17 Hornet, etc..... All of which are too small for an ethical kill on deer IMO unless you get a brain shot or perfect vital shot. I will email the guy but I still have reservations. God bless you for taking initiative BTW.

[Doug Helton]

It was any centerfire in the old days , and yes grandpa shot them with 25-20's etc , I didn't realize this was an issue , what centerfire do you guys want to use that's not legal now . where I grew up any center fire is legal now and quite a few use 22-250's on big northern white tails through it seems light to me

[257ROBERT]

IMO 223 particularly in current factory configurations is too light for deer. I believe with proper handloads and in the hands of an experienced rifleman it could be used effectively, but trying to decide who would qualify is a huge can of worms that would be ugly to sort out. If you believe it takes roughly 750 ft/lbs of energy to humanely take deer it would limit your effective range to about 150 yds or closer.

[Kolat]

Too many retards would try and shoot deer with .223 fmj.

I would feel comfortable shooting an elk with a 22-250

[Noobie]

I personally don't see why a 223 isn't legal for deer.. if it is legal for cougar why isn't it legal for deer? I also have a hard time understanding the ft/lbs of energy.. at 700ft/lbs or so is more powerful than most 44 mag loads at the muzzle and that is considered the MINIMUM amount of energy for a clean ethical kill. Yes I understand a gut shot with a 223 is not ethical, and lots of gut shots do happen! However, you could shoot a deer with a slug in the guts and he's still going to run and suffer. The caliber shouldn't matter, the hunter does. My 243 has dropped 3 deer in their tracks this year from 85-320 yards. And there wasn't a single time that I didn't feel my 223 shooting 55gr barnes bullets couldn't have done the job just as well.

[Doug Helton]

Noobie has just expressed the wisdom of the ages , in the right hands they all work and a big bullet in the wrong place is of little value . Of course our legislators must legislate or they have no purpose , just like steel shot , while vastly improved from its beginnings it still doesn't kill like lead so we trade some potential lead poisoning from ponds to a higher cripple rate /lost birds . Sorry for the rant

[Noobie]

If there is a ban to be made I believe it should be illegal to hunt big game with fmjs or other non expanding bullets. A 300 Weatherby that shoots fmjs will take longer to kill a deer through the lungs than a 22-250 or a 223 with expanding bullets. Not saying fmjs can't do clean ethical shots, however a double lung shot with an fmj is almost a garenteed run with a minimal blood trail. Which leads to more lost deer. Just my $0.02 sorry for ranting guys..

[Coug91]

I'm trying to change the 24 cal. Min to any centerfire rifle,all the other states in the Pacific northwest allow it and we should have it too.please email Scott bird
Rules.Coordinator@dfw.wa.gov
I need as many emails as I can get before Jan.1, just Tell him that u would like to hunt deer with 223 , and reasons why u think it could be deer cal.

Why? I see more downside to people attempting to kill deer with 223 FMJ. What upside do you see in doing this? Not saying no, but convince me there is upside to doing this.

[R.J.]

I'm trying to change the 24 cal. Min to any centerfire rifle,all the other states in the Pacific northwest allow it and we should have it too.please email Scott bird
Rules.Coordinator@dfw.wa.gov
I need as many emails as I can get before Jan.1, just Tell him that u would like to hunt deer with 223 , and reasons why u think it could be deer cal.

Why? I see more downside to people attempting to kill deer with 223 FMJ. What upside do you see in doing this? Not saying no, but convince me there is upside to doing this.

+1.

[ron]

What's wrong with using a caliber .24 caliber or larger? Some people don't like recoil, but not even a .26 caliber like a 6.5 Grendel recoils very much and neither does a 300 blackout if you want to hunt with an AR, and there's always the AR-10 in .308 which is even better yet. But probably the cheapest way to go is a 300 blackout upper since they use standard magazines if you want to hunt with your AR.

I'd rather kill an animal "Too Dead" than not dead enough and see the animal run off and die a slow agonizing death. I love hunting but I also love animals. Larger calibers work better on raking shots and less than ideal shots than smaller calibers, that's just a fact of life and a 30-30 is a much better deer caliber than the 223 even though both will kill a deer. The bigger the hole in the hull, the faster the ship will sink, and a 35 Remington is even better yet.

Someone should design a .35 Blackout.

Sorry, but I can't support changing the 24 caliber minimum. I think it's one regulation that actually makes sense.

[Noobie]

I agree with you guys on the fmj part. However the 223 caliber is plenty capable of killing deer humanely. It doesn't make sense to me that they allow handgun hunting but not any rifle smaller than 24 cal... the 45 acp makes 400ft/lbs tops. And it wouldn't get a second look for killing capability

[ron]

I agree with you guys on the fmj part. However the 223 caliber is plenty capable of killing deer humanely. It doesn't make sense to me that they allow handgun hunting but not any rifle smaller than 24 cal... the 45 acp makes 400ft/lbs tops. And it wouldn't get a second look for killing capability

The difference between handgun hunting and rifle hunting is that handgun hunting is done at closer ranges just like bowhunting, and 45 Acp is not commonly used for handgun hunting. Most handgun hunters use 357, 41 , and 44 magnums or hot loaded 45 long colt revolvers, and some even use T/C contenders in calibers like 35 Remington and even 45/70. and then there's the big 450 and 500 Smith and wesson magnums that were developed for handgun hunting.

[Noobie]

No no I understand that, however a 223 and 22-250 make more energy at 300 yards than most handguns. According to the regulations you may hunt deer with a .380 if you choose and that's a pretty controversial round for even self defense let alone hunting. Alot of people say the 22 cal rounds aren't sufficient enough for deer sized game. But I don't understand what a handgun can do that a 223 cannot as far as hunting. A bow is the same way in my opinion. It causes the least amount of damage and they're almost garenteed to run. Without perfect placement losing that deer may be the outcome. As opposed to a rifle that will cause mayhem on whatever it hits as long as you have an expanding bullet.

[casper]

No no I understand that, however a 223 and 22-250 make more energy at 300 yards than most handguns. According to the regulations you may hunt deer with a .380 if you choose and that's a pretty controversial round for even self defense let alone hunting. Alot of people say the 22 cal rounds aren't sufficient enough for deer sized game. But I don't understand what a handgun can do that a 223 cannot as far as hunting. A bow is the same way in my opinion. It causes the least amount of damage and they're almost garenteed to run. Without perfect placement losing that deer may be the outcome. As opposed to a rifle that will cause mayhem on whatever it hits as long as you have an expanding bullet.

Speaking to the muzzle energy. Muzzle energy is very deceptive and in my opinion misleading. I believe there are better scales to judge/guess what damage a bullet will do to tissue and bone ie. "Taylor ko factor" and there are others, none perfect!
In regards to the use of .22 center fire for deer I'm in the middle. Unfortunately you have to make these laws for the dumbest guy out there.... maybe some more specific regulations in regards to the type of bullet that can be used would help? The advantage is that more people will be able to use their tack driving coyote rifles, and kids will have another very low recoil option to start them off hunting.

The hunting equipment item that I think is pretty ludicrous is the fact that as of 10-15yrs ago the law was changed that you can use any hand gun with a 4in barrel that is over .24 cal.. Which is to say that you can hunt deer with a .25 auto as long as it has a 4in. barrel! But a .44mag. with a 3.75in. barrel is illegal! When they first changed this law I called Olimpia because I could not believe what I had read, needless to say they confirmed what I had read, and seemed unconcerned about my example of hunting with a completely underpowered hand gun.

[hunter399]

I would like to see 223,22-250 added,and a ban on all fmj ammo,in deer season I can take my sks,300blk,load up crapy fmj,and have a dozen deer run off after I shoot them and it's all legal.Handgun is a whole other story , but not right at all.Email tell them any reason you want,and least try.thanks again for all support.

[Noobie]

+1

[257ROBERT]

If you believe in the "best tool for the job" the 22 cal is to far down on the list to be seriously considered. There are simply too many better choices.

[scrappy]

I'm trying to change the 24 cal. Min to any centerfire rifle,all the other states in the Pacific northwest allow it and we should have it too.please email Scott bird
Rules.Coordinator@dfw.wa.gov
I need as many emails as I can get before Jan.1, just Tell him that u would like to hunt deer with 223 , and reasons why u think it could be deer cal.

Why? I see more downside to people attempting to kill deer with 223 FMJ. What upside do you see in doing this? Not saying no, but convince me there is upside to doing this.

The laws already prohibit use of any FMJ mo regardless of caliber. While I agree that there is more 223 FMJ ammo out there than anything else this has never been a problem with 30-06, 308 or 7.62x39 or a host of other military calibers. The bigger concern is not the use of FMJ's , rather it's the use of expanding bullets intended for varmints. There are rounds on the market intended for medium game, but they are comparatively few and too many morons out there won't bother trying to learn the good from the bad.

[Call Turner]

^^^ I believe your beating a dead horse on this one. Were in a state where game management and hunting opportunities are controlled by leftist liberals and poor science. When was the last time you saw Washington hunting of any kind written about in any magazine ? The answer is never. When I was younger you could use a 22-250 to shoot deer. (60s and 70s) I worked as a temp for the WDFW and my boss did it. We had trophy elk hunting , now hardly ever and by special permit only. You could hunt bow, muzzle loader, and rifle season, now pick one or draw a special permit . We had hound hunting for bears and cats , some of the best in the United States. Gone! One of the last stories published about a Washington Outfitter was in the late 70s. Now never. Our public lands our gated, though you do need a permit to Discover what's behind the gate. Idaho , Oregon, and Montana are always written about in outdoor magazines and you hear them talk about great hunting opportunities in the north west, never Wash. A 9 day rifle elk season for a $95 dollar tag really? Go next door to Idaho and hunt bow, muzzle loader, and rifle for $17 extra and a $35 tag from Sept till Dec. The 22 cals are not coming back folks.