Need educating on M855 Green Tip 223/556 Ammo

[Martini Shooter]

I am rather new to the 556/223 world.

I have some questions about the ammo being sold.

I have a RRA 5.56 "Operator" which I have shot at Mica and love it.

I am set up to reload 223 55 grain FMJBT and 55 grain Cast (LEE 'bator' mold).

I saw that the BATF was going to outlaw the light armor piercing "Green Tip" M855 ammo.
Apparently only in 62 grain versions.

Now the latest Natchez April/May flier has it for sale !
You can order 12,500 rds for $6130 !

Anyway, is that LAP ammo banned or not ?

I have no use for armor piercing ammo - no intention of entering any battles !

But once they BAN anything, one wants to get it....just to be defiant....

BUT - can one purchase the BULLETS to reload with ? Just wondered about it.
Have not seen the bullets for sale anywhere.

Martini-Shooter

[Low Trq]

It is not banned.

PSA sells 1000 rounds of it for $449 shipped right now.

It only comes in 62 grain flavor.

You can get just the bullets and reload them, just look up SS109 projectiles.

They aren't that awesome.

If you have any more questions I'll try to answer them.

[Martini Shooter]

Thanks for that information !

What is all the baloney then about BATF ?

Anyway, NATCHEZ has Federal Green Tip .223 NATO (?) and 5.56 NATO Green Tip.

Don't understand the difference. Both 62 grain.

Can one shoot the Green Tip at the ranges ?

I suppose it would punch holes in the Metal Targets at Mica - Joel might
not appreciate that.

Just saw some for sale on MIDWAY, but out of stock.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/331721 ... -boat-tail

My RRA "Operator" (5.56 on barrel) should handle them, yes ?

I am intrigued by them...just curious.

Martini-Shooter

[JasonH]

That's $0.49-ish a round, for that large of a quantity I would expect a better price..
Sounds like they are riding the wave of the previous scare, and posturing the selfs ahead on this new scare..

As for M855, it a decent round that produces consistent results.
It is a round, nothing more. As for the light armor piercing, you send a pointy thing speeding at 3000+FPS it's going to punch through stuff

.223 has a chamber pressure that is about 10000 psi less than 5.56.

And there are minor case differences but .223 will work quite well in a 5.56 barrel.

[ron]

"Federal Green Tip .223 NATO " is just the wrong terminology. the 223 is NOT a nato round But some people use the term "223" for everything but it's wrong. 5.56 Nato means the military round, .223 is the civilian version of the military round.

The military round has a longer chamber throat to help reduce pressures and allows them to load it hotter than the civilian 223 round. The .223 has a shorter throat for better accuracy and it isn't loaded as hot as the 5.56. So when you fire 5.56 in a tighter 223 chamber Pressures go beyond max but not enough to blow up the gun but enough so that in a semi-auto you get cases stuck in chambers and blown primers an such which, in a semi-auto is not good.

They make what's called a "Wylde" chamber that is a compromise and will handle 5.56 ammo but it has better accuracy than a standard 5.56 chamber is qwith either type of ammo. You can fire 223 in a 556 chamber but accuracy will not be as good as in a 223 chamber. And you shouldn't fire 5.56 in a 223 chamber especially if it's rapid fire

The green tip ammo is not capable of putting a hole through most steel targets. It is not a true armour piercing round. It's more of an "Enhanced Penetration" FMJ round

[thumpar]

Since it is an RRA I would bet it has the Wylde chamber. Almost all RRA built ARs have it. I have an RRA 14.5" and it will eat whatever I feed it.

[rgg16g]

.....Just wondered about it.
Have not seen the bullets for sale anywhere.

Martini-Shooter

If you want to try them they show them as in stock here:

http://www.shop.rmrbullets.com/224-62-s ... w-1000.htm

But at that price I would try other projectiles.

[Martini Shooter]

The reality of it is that I didn't even know about these LP bullets until I got an
E-Mail Flyer from someone (I think it was Cheaper Than Dirt) saying they had
been banned.

So THEN of course I wanted to know about them.

If they are now subject to "panic buying', then I don't want to be one of the
panic buyers.

I don't even know what I would try them on except some scrap steel plate I
would take to the range.

Thanks for the Education, fellows !

Martini-Shooter

[Bob R]

You have gotten most, if not all of your answers so I will only add one thing.

When you get a flyer from Cheaper Than Dirt, throw it away, don't even look at it. They are scumbag crooks of the highest order. When the latest ammo ban rumor surfaced they suddenly were out of stock on the ammo for a few days and then it was back in stock at an inflated price. That was not the first time that happened with them. If they were on fire and screaming for help I wouldn't walk across the street to piss on them to put out the fire.

bob

[LostInWA]

Since it is an RRA I would bet it has the Wylde chamber. Almost all RRA built ARs have it. I have an RRA 14.5" and it will eat whatever I feed it.

Not to hijack, but i have this chamber as well. How heavy can you go? Would something
75+ grain be ok?

[ron]

Since it is an RRA I would bet it has the Wylde chamber. Almost all RRA built ARs have it. I have an RRA 14.5" and it will eat whatever I feed it.

Not to hijack, but i have this chamber as well. How heavy can you go? Would something
75+ grain be ok?

That has nothing to do with the chamber. it depends on the rifling twist, For a round ball, you need a very slow twist like in in 60 but 1-in-48 will work.. for a 200 grain 44-40 winchester used a 1 in 38 twist. for a 6.5 160 grain "pencil bullet" you need a very fast twist like one-in 8. The original 22-250's and 222 remingtons used a 1-in -14 twist for short-for-caliber 50 grain bullets, and 22 rimfires use a 1-16 twist for even shorter 40 grain bullets.

Some 223's are one in 12 and That was the original twist for the M-16 when all ammo used a 55 grain bullet. for 62 grains a 1-in 9 twist is good but a 1-in 7 twist is needed for the 75 grainers.

it is easier to under-stabilize a bullet with too slow a twist but it's harder to OVER-stabilize a bullet with too fast a twist.

[scrappy]

LostinWa, Many AR's have the twist rate stamped on the barrel. Is this apparent on yours?

[LostInWA]

LostinWa, Many AR's have the twist rate stamped on the barrel. Is this apparent on yours?

Mine is 1 in 8.

[WickedWillis]

That price for the M855 is insane. Refuse to pay that for just okay 223/556

[thumpar]

LostinWa, Many AR's have the twist rate stamped on the barrel. Is this apparent on yours?

Mine is 1 in 8.

1 in 8 is a good twist rate. You can shoot most common ammo out there with it. 75 grain would be no problem with that rate. You would probably max out the OAL before you got to heavy of a bullet.

[BC38]

You have gotten most, if not all of your answers so I will only add one thing.

When you get a flyer from Cheaper Than Dirt, throw it away, don't even look at it. They are scumbag crooks of the highest order. When the latest ammo ban rumor surfaced they suddenly were out of stock on the ammo for a few days and then it was back in stock at an inflated price. That was not the first time that happened with them. If they were on fire and screaming for help I wouldn't walk across the street to piss on them to put out the fire.

bob

Yup, they went one further with the 22 ammo shortage. They actually cancelled people's backorders saying it "wasn't available" - then a couple of day laters it suddenly was available again - at twice the price.
The only way I would buy anything from these jerks is if they were the ABSOLUTE LAST PLACE ON EARTH that had something I absolutely could NOT do without.

[eph411]

Not to hijack, but i have this chamber as well. How heavy can you go? Would something
75+ grain be ok?

Like others have said, your twist rate is fast enough for the heavier bullets. The one other factor to consider in an AR is that you're limited by how long you can load and still fit into the magazine unless you plan to single load. The Hornady 75 BTHP and 77 grain Nosler and Sierra will fit an AR mag, but the 75 grain AMAX or anything heavier will not.

Eric

[ron]

Not to hijack, but i have this chamber as well. How heavy can you go? Would something
75+ grain be ok?

Like others have said, your twist rate is fast enough for the heavier bullets. The one other factor to consider in an AR is that you're limited by how long you can load and still fit into the magazine unless you plan to single load. The Hornady 75 BTHP and 77 grain Nosler and Sierra will fit an AR mag, but the 75 grain AMAX or anything heavier will not.

Eric

The limiting factor with the AMAX would be at the point which the parallel sides of the projectile began to curve inward towards the bullet's nose and the crimp applied to the case mouth would not make contact with the projectile once you seated the bullet beyond a certain depth. But that brings up another important point.

Seating bullets deeper uses up case capacity for powder and already by going to a heavier bullet you're trading velocity for projectile mass. Generally, when you trade velocity for mass, it's a fair exchange, unlike trading bullet mass for velocity which is usually a losing proposition. So the way the 223 round has been improved over the years is by going to heavier and heavier bullets. But eventually you reach the point of diminishing returns because of case capacity.

78, 80 and even 90 grain .223 projectiles would have incredible sectional density and ballistic coefficient but only would only offer an advantage in a cartridge that had the case capacity near that of a 22-250 to give them adequate velocity. And even with the 5.56x45 case, more capacity could be gained in a bolt action rifle with a custom chamber made for long heavy bullets to be seated out further.

I once had a Stevens 20 guage single shot that came with a 30-30 Winchester barrel. I found that I could seat a 180 grain round nose out far enough to give me enough case capacity to produce velocities with that bullet equal to the 30-40 Krag. I actually traded the rifle off before I could experiment With 180 grain spitzers, but the those Sierra round noses were really accurate. And the powder I used was RL-15 which was probably the right burn rate to give me max velocities for those heavier bullets.