Painted wheel weights?

[eph411]

You are correct, I had read a tad quickly and posted the wrong info. Good catch. I had thought 327 sounded low but....lol. So if you use a good casting thermometer, and keep your alloy around 700, as you noted, then there should be no danger. When I ran into this problem last year I was not using a thermometer and had the temp set high for quicker melting.

Well I feel relieved now, I was worried I was losing my mind there for a moment! I think you're exactly right that a good thermometer and temperature control is the key, both in smelting and casting if you want to ensure good fill in your molds. Super fun hobby though, and deeply rewarding when you're shooting for next to nothing!

Eric

[scrappy]

Eph411 said " and deeply rewarding when you're shooting for next to nothing!"
You got that right! My 45 loads with cast bullets cost me all of about 8 cents a shot. 1.5 cents fpr powder, 3.5 cents for primer, perhaps another 2-3 cents for the wheelweights. I suppose if you factored in electricity and bullet lube it might bre 9-10 cents a shot. Or $5 a box, maybe. 38 special is even better yet.

[Norskie]

I have not made a permanent reinforcement for the stove yet. What I did at the time was just place a couple pieces of steel I had in the shop underneath the grill to support the weight of the pot. Haven't had to melt wheel weights for a while so I haven't done anything with it. I think I will use angle iron and expanded metal when I do get around to making one

[eph411]

Eph411 said " and deeply rewarding when you're shooting for next to nothing!"
You got that right! My 45 loads with cast bullets cost me all of about 8 cents a shot. 1.5 cents fpr powder, 3.5 cents for primer, perhaps another 2-3 cents for the wheelweights. I suppose if you factored in electricity and bullet lube it might bre 9-10 cents a shot. Or $5 a box, maybe. 38 special is even better yet.

I'm still shooting through my primer stash that only cost me about $22 a brick, and my wheelweight stock I got for free with the occasional box of donuts thrown in as a gesture of thanks. So my cost is right at $3.50 per thousand, which is exceptionally rewarding!

Eric

[Rigger28]

Thanks Scrappy. One more question, have any of you tried smelting in a cast iron pot on a Coleman camp stove? Will it get hot enough? I bought the Lyman Big Dipper pot to use once I have ingots made but I didn't want to ruin it by smelting wheel weights and reclaimed bullets. I don't have a turkey fryer and would rather not buy one if I can help it. Thanks.

That's exactly the same setup I use, old Coleman stove and a big ole dutch oven for smelting. You'll need to build something to support the weight of the pot since the stock grate won't work, I just welded up a little stand that works great for support and it's good to go. Get a good casting thermometer, fill up your potx and keep the temperature around 700. The steel clips and anything zinc will float on up to the surface where they can be skimmed out of the mix. Then I'll add more weights and repeat until I've got a good full pot. Flux the mix however you prefer, I use paraffin and some sawdust usually that I stir in with a wooden shovel handle. Skim the dross, repeat until your satisfied and then start casting ingots. I just go with straight wheel weights and then add to the mix later in the casting pot if I want a different alloy of some kind.

Bottom line though, a Coleman stove works great for me. Plan to be outdoors on a good clear day, and stay clear of the fumes you'll be creating. But it's a pretty easy process.

I scored a nice used 12" Dutch oven yesterday for $15. I soaked it in hot water and dish soap all night and then scrubbed it with a SS sponge thing to get the grease out. I will be able to fit quite a bit of lead in there. My camp stove has a very sturdy grill with lots of weight support points on it so I don't think I will need any braces. I'm gonna give her a go this weekend and will post a report. Thanks again everyone for all the tips.

[Norskie]

That pot should work well. Just keep an eye on the grill it may seem sturdy now but when you crank your burner up the grill most likely won't handle the weight. With the amount of time it takes to heat the pot and melt the lead the grill will most likely be red hot and start to sag. Have a fire extinguisher close by and stay out of the smoke. Like we have said before smelting wheel weights is a NASTY process until all the garbage burns off!

[eph411]

That pot should work well. Just keep an eye on the grill it may seem sturdy now but when you crank your burner up the grill most likely won't handle the weight. With the amount of time it takes to heat the pot and melt the lead the grill will most likely be red hot and start to sag. Have a fire extinguisher close by and stay out of the smoke. Like we have said before smelting wheel weights is a NASTY process until all the garbage burns off!

+1000. Read this and then reread it again a time or two, because it's sound and sage advice. A quart of lead by volume weighs something like 22 or 23#'s, so that a typical 4-quart dutch oven filled up around the 3/4 mark is going to weigh like 70-80#'s by the time you figure the weight of the lead and dutch oven together. So you want to over engineer as far as I'm concerned, especially from a safety standpoint since molten lead in contact with any sort of moisture (such as you'll find on the ground if it spills) is - shall we say, EXCITING?!?! If nothing else, I'd be happy to lend you my little stand I manufactured for my stove. It ain't pretty, but it does the job of providing ample support.

Eric

[Rigger28]

That pot should work well. Just keep an eye on the grill it may seem sturdy now but when you crank your burner up the grill most likely won't handle the weight. With the amount of time it takes to heat the pot and melt the lead the grill will most likely be red hot and start to sag. Have a fire extinguisher close by and stay out of the smoke. Like we have said before smelting wheel weights is a NASTY process until all the garbage burns off!

+1000. Read this and then reread it again a time or two, because it's sound and sage advice. A quart of lead by volume weighs something like 22 or 23#'s, so that a typical 4-quart dutch oven filled up around the 3/4 mark is going to weigh like 70-80#'s by the time you figure the weight of the lead and dutch oven together. So you want to over engineer as far as I'm concerned, especially from a safety standpoint since molten lead in contact with any sort of moisture (such as you'll find on the ground if it spills) is - shall we say, EXCITING?!?! If nothing else, I'd be happy to lend you my little stand I manufactured for my stove. It ain't pretty, but it does the job of providing ample support.

Eric

I sincerely appreciate the offer. I have one of those heavy duty steel folding grates you use to cook over a fire, I think I'm gonna prop my stove up on bricks underneath that until the grill is just barely contacting the underside of the grate. That should hold it nicely. I don't plan on doing a full pot anyway, especially my first time.

[Norskie]

eph411 mentioned moisture and molten lead. This is a very bad combination. A little water in that molten lead will cause a violent lead eruption (tinsel ferry) and the lead will fly out of the pot. I'm not big on safety gear and all that jazz. I do however wear leather gloves and safety glasses when I'm smelting and casting. I do things slow and easy with the pot so I don't have any hot lead splashing around.

[Call Turner]

While saving a few bucks with a Coleman stove and a modified grate is fine, you can pick up a turkey fryer new for under $50. If you watch craigs list you can find the burners for $20 or less. Their built to hold quite a bit of weight with several gallons of oil and a 15 - 20 lb turkey. I use one with a cast dutch oven and you do get about 50lbs plus at a time in it. Tipping over 50 lbs of molten lead could be a bad day. Also the fryers have a larger burner to melt faster.

[Rigger28]

Well I did all my smelting today. I ended up getting a turkey fryer stand which worked awesome. I started with exactly 61.0 lbs of wheel weights and ended up with 58, 1lb ingots using the lyman mould. The ingots together weighed in at exactly 55.0 lbs. I'm very very happy. I used tea candles as flux. I'm not gonna lie it was way easier than I expected. I will be casting bullets later this week and will give a report. I'm using a Lee 2-bullet aluminum mould. 158 grain .358" semi wad cutter. Tumble lube grooves. Thanks again for all the input/advice.

[eph411]

Well I did all my smelting today. I ended up getting a turkey fryer stand which worked awesome. I started with exactly 61.0 lbs of wheel weights and ended up with 58, 1lb ingots using the lyman mould. The ingots together weighed in at exactly 55.0 lbs. I'm very very happy. I used tea candles as flux. I'm not gonna lie it was way easier than I expected. I will be casting bullets later this week and will give a report. I'm using a Lee 2-bullet aluminum mould. 158 grain .358" semi wad cutter. Tumble lube grooves. Thanks again for all the input/advice.

Excellent, glad to hear everything went well for you. Let us know if you need any other help as you move toward casting. Getting good fill is probably the most difficult part of casting, but prep your mold right and control your temperature in the melt and mold abd you'll be good. You can always drop bullets back in the pot as you get it figured out, but I think you'll find casting is overall a pretty simple process.

Eric

[Norskie]

Just a heads up with the lee molds. They are made out of aluminum. They heat up quickly. When the mold gets hot you will start dropping frosted bullets. There is nothing wrong with them other than appearance ( in my opinion) some master casters say they will be slighty undersize for cailber and brittle. I have not experienced this. Just check the edges are not rounded and they are wrinkle free. Plan on discarding your first who knows how many bullets back in the pot. It's takes a few drops before you starting getting good bullets. Good luck and happy casting!

PS

Overflow the lead onto the sprue plate to ensure the cavities are full

[scrappy]

Well I did all my smelting today. I ended up getting a turkey fryer stand which worked awesome. I started with exactly 61.0 lbs of wheel weights and ended up with 58, 1lb ingots using the lyman mould. The ingots together weighed in at exactly 55.0 lbs. I'm very very happy. I used tea candles as flux. I'm not gonna lie it was way easier than I expected. I will be casting bullets later this week and will give a report. I'm using a Lee 2-bullet aluminum mould. 158 grain .358" semi wad cutter. Tumble lube grooves. Thanks again for all the input/advice.

I have this exact mould and have cast thousands of bullets with it. It will take perhaps 6-10 pours before you get things up to proper temp and get good bullets. When the mould is cold they will come out wrinkly. Be sure you completely clean it with alcohol before you use it, as they are often lightly coated with oil, and the oil will prevent good pours.
Also a firm rap on the handles (NEVER on the mould itself) with a wooden mallet, or even a piece of closet rod, will encourage sticky bullets to drop out. Be cautious how you used the wood dowel or mallet to knock the sprue plate open. It MUST be struck parallel to its travel to keep from bending it. Never hit the sprue plate at an angle.
Interestingly, small defects in the nose of the bullet have very little effect on accuracy, but defects in the base have a profound effect on accuracy. I used them unsized and lubed with alox for years with no issues. Today I run them through a Lee .358 sizer after lubing them. They seem to shoot just a tad better, but the difference isn't much.

[Rigger28]

Thanks gents, I ordered the .358" Lee bullet sizing kit last night. It comes with a bottle of Alox. Amazon has the kit on sale right now for $20.99. Free shipping if you have prime. Hopefully I will be shooting my own bullets by this weekend!!!

[ron]

Thanks gents, I ordered the .358" Lee bullet sizing kit last night. It comes with a bottle of Alox. Amazon has the kit on sale right now for $20.99. Free shipping if you have prime. Hopefully I will be shooting my own bullets by this weekend!!!

What will you be shooting these projectiles from? 38 special? 357 mag? What guns? what loads? I like Unique for the 38 and Unique and AA9 and 2400 for the 357. Unique in the 367 is good for mid range loads and Blue dot also works well and you uses less blue dot than you would AA9 or 2400 to get the same velocities, but the slower burning AA9 and 2400 will give higher velocities. H110/296 are even slower burning and will give the highest velocities of all but I've found that 2400 and AA9 come damn close and usually gives the best accuracy. AA9 has another advantage that it is a low-muzzle flash powder.

I haven't played around with Lil' Gun yet but it gives good velocities according to the load manuals but there are internet rumors that it burns hot and has other problems So I need to research that more before I try any.

[Rigger28]

They will be used in a .38 special. I have been loading Speer lead 158 grain SWC-HP using 3.9 grains of SR4756. I have about 300 of those left and then I will substitute my cast bullets. Once I get the hang of it I would love to make some hard cast for my .444 and .45-70 using a gas check mould.

[ron]

They will be used in a .38 special. I have been loading Speer lead 158 grain SWC-HP using 3.9 grains of SR4756. I have about 300 of those left and then I will substitute my cast bullets. Once I get the hang of it I would love to make some hard cast for my .444 and .45-70 using a gas check mould.

I load a 1568 grain bullet in the 38 special with starting loads of 4.3gr, 4.6gr,. and work up to 5.0, 5.3grains. 5.0 grains is usually about right.

Marlin 444's with microgroove rifling seem to work best if you don't try to drive them too fast. I use a lyman 429215 gas check bullet with 18 grains of Unique that develops about 1800 fps. with wheelweight alloy hardened by quenching and using either lee liquid alox or lyman Orange magic I get good accuracy with that load. the bullets weigh about 218 grains with my alloy. They are supposed to weigh 215 grains with linotype or lyman #2 alloy. 275-200 grains would be a better weight for the 444 but the 215 grain bullet is a good plinking load and is equivalent to a 44 magnum carbine load.

Is your 45-70 also a Marlin? Unique powder also works well in the 45-70 (but I don't know about micro-groove) And it is the most economical powder you can use in that chambering for Black powder equivalent loads with 350-405 grain bullet loads.

Ther eis a very good reason why they named that powder Unique.

[Rigger28]

Ron, thanks for the great info. My .444 is one of the earlier Winchester 94 Timber Carbines with an 18", 1/38" twist barrel. It shoots 265s good and 240s great! My .45-70 is a full size Marlin with 22" barrel.

[Rigger28]

Oh and I mistyped earlier, I use 4.9 grains of SR4756 not 3.9