polymer coated bullets.

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polymer coated bullets.

Post by ron » Tue Oct 04, 2016 9:12 pm

Recently on the Handguns forum. I posted information about a new line of ammo that Federal has come out with using polymer coated bullets. I noted that this ammo is selling for a couple dollars more than standard American Eagle ammo, likely because it is new and they have to recover the costs of R&D, but that eventually the price should come down because coating bullets with polymer is cheaper than jacketing bullets with extruded copper and brass alloy. just as plating bullets with copper us cheaper than jacketing bullets with extruded copper and brass alloy. I alos expressed the opinion that I hoped tha these bullets would be offered as components for reloaders.

Now I've discovered that one of my sources for cast bullets is offering Polymer coated bullets for reloaders. In most cases, with handguns I prefer cast bullets to plated or jacketed and I've never really like the plated bullets. Here is a link to the website but I not that they are currently out of 9mm but they have .40. 10mm, 44, and 45. Unfortunately they do not carry bullets in .410 diameter for the .41 mag. However, I think the prices are pretty damn good especially since they offer free shipping.

https://www.badmanbullets.com/OnlineSto ... mer+Coated

9mm 124 Grain RN Polymer Qty 1000
.In Stock: 0
Qty 1000
Size .356
FREE SHIPPING
Price: $85.00

9mm 124 Grain RN Polymer Qty 500
In Stock: 0
Qty 500
Size .356
Price: $44.00
Email Me When Back in Stock

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Re: polymer coated bullets.

Post by Abruzzi » Wed Oct 05, 2016 7:43 am

Bayou Bullets and Missouri bullets have coated .41 bullets. Never used the Bayou, but the Missouri bullets work well in my 38 and 357.

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Re: polymer coated bullets.

Post by BC38 » Wed Oct 05, 2016 8:48 am

Poly or powder coated bullets seem to be the rage in all the reloading forums these days. Lots of info on how to coat your own if you're a caster too.
Supposedly they are better for accuracy and can be pushed faster than plated - which generally are not recommended to be pushed faster than ~1200 fps - and they are supposed to shoot cleaner with less leading than plain cast or swagged.
I got some 44 mag/spl 240gr cast LSWCs from another member here and although I've loaded a few I haven't actually tried shooting them yet. One thing I noticed is the ones I got seemed about 1/1000 smaller diameter than the plain cast lead lead I usually load - which seemed strange. I'd expect them to be slightly larger diameter assuming that the bullets were standard diameter to start with. The only explanation I came up with is that they must start out slightly undersized to compensate for the layer of coating - but the coating didn't come out quite thick enough to bring them back up to full diameter.
We'll see how they shoot...
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Re: polymer coated bullets.

Post by ron » Wed Oct 05, 2016 11:59 am

BC38 wrote:Poly or powder coated bullets seem to be the rage in all the reloading forums these days. Lots of info on how to coat your own if you're a caster too.
Supposedly they are better for accuracy and can be pushed faster than plated - which generally are not recommended to be pushed faster than ~1200 fps - and they are supposed to shoot cleaner with less leading than plain cast or swagged.
I got some 44 mag/spl 240gr cast LSWCs from another member here and although I've loaded a few I haven't actually tried shooting them yet. One thing I noticed is the ones I got seemed about 1/1000 smaller diameter than the plain cast lead lead I usually load - which seemed strange. I'd expect them to be slightly larger diameter assuming that the bullets were standard diameter to start with. The only explanation I came up with is that they must start out slightly undersized to compensate for the layer of coating - but the coating didn't come out quite thick enough to bring them back up to full diameter.
We'll see how they shoot...

I have a friend in Arizona who powder-coats his. He likes them because it's so hot there they have trouble with lubes on the cast bullets melting.

Thanks to Abruzzi for the heads up on the poly-coated Bayou Bullets and Missouri bullets .41 bullets.

Here's a video of someone testing the Bayou Bullets to see how much residue, if any, they leave in the barrel:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6lNQlMAT9c
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Re: polymer coated bullets.

Post by BC38 » Wed Oct 05, 2016 12:16 pm

ron wrote:
BC38 wrote:Poly or powder coated bullets seem to be the rage in all the reloading forums these days. Lots of info on how to coat your own if you're a caster too.
Supposedly they are better for accuracy and can be pushed faster than plated - which generally are not recommended to be pushed faster than ~1200 fps - and they are supposed to shoot cleaner with less leading than plain cast or swagged.
I got some 44 mag/spl 240gr cast LSWCs from another member here and although I've loaded a few I haven't actually tried shooting them yet. One thing I noticed is the ones I got seemed about 1/1000 smaller diameter than the plain cast lead lead I usually load - which seemed strange. I'd expect them to be slightly larger diameter assuming that the bullets were standard diameter to start with. The only explanation I came up with is that they must start out slightly undersized to compensate for the layer of coating - but the coating didn't come out quite thick enough to bring them back up to full diameter.
We'll see how they shoot...

I have a friend in Arizona who powder-coats his. He likes them because it's so hot there they have trouble with lubes on the cast bullets melting.

Thanks to Abruzzi for the heads up on the poly-coated Bayou Bullets and Missouri bullets .41 bullets.
I think it is a hoot that a major manufacturer (American Eagle) is now trying to market and capitalize on something that (as far as I know) handloaders came up with and have been doing for at least 4 or 5 years (probably longer than that)!
Pretty soon they'll probably all be selling their own lines of designer "poly-coated" ammo!
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Re: polymer coated bullets.

Post by ron » Wed Oct 05, 2016 12:43 pm

Badman Bullets is still the best deal because of free shipping. Otherwise prices are comparable. I like the Bayou bullets because you can buy them by the 100 rather than having to buy 500 minimum, AND they offer 41 mag bullets. Missourri Bullets has the best selction of bullet shapes, sizes, and weights, however, and I've ordered bullets from them before, and they've been around for many years.

Bayou also offers their bullets in a choice of 3 designer colors but they don't offer bright red like Federal's "Lipstick bullets" Bayou's red bullets are more of a dull, metallic colour.
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Re: polymer coated bullets.

Post by the-jessman » Wed Oct 05, 2016 1:55 pm

I've been using these bullets and am happy with them: http://www.precisionbullets.com/store.html

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Re: polymer coated bullets.

Post by reloader762 » Sun Oct 09, 2016 11:35 pm

I've been powder coating both pistol and rifle bullets for some time now using both the ES gun as well as the tumble lube process and have come to the conclusion that I like the PC'ed pistol bullets very much but for rifle loads where the bullets have standard lube grooves I'm going to stick with my RCBS Lubesizer. It's just easier for me to lube,size and gas check when needed all at one time. I don't have issues with leading in my rifles and handguns anyway so PC bullets are more or an option and convenience in certain situations than anything else and not a necessity.

I haven't really found the PC'ed rifle bullets to be much of any advantage other than using it to mark specific type loads that use the same bullet design in the same cartridge for quick reference ie like my low velocity 150 to 170 gr. 30-30 plinker loads or my Lee 160 gr. TL bullet that I use 12.5 grs. of Alliant 2400 with that will cycle in my Chinese SKS but want in the Yugo SKS. Before I just circled the primer pocket with a colored sharpie and wrote the load notes card that goes in the ammo box in the same color.

In the process of curing the bullets they are baked at 400 degrees for around 20 minutes,if you have water quenched or heat treated your bullets prior the curing process to add hardness it will bring them back to there original BHN. For bullets that I plan to PC I just cast them at the BHN I require to begin with so the curing process has no real bearing on the bullets. Water quenched or bullets that I plan on heat treating just get regular tumble lube or ran through the lubesizer. When your time to enjoy your hobby is limited you just try and keep things simple.

Here are a few bullets I sprayed with the ES gun way back when. I don't use it much anymore as I found I could tumble my bullet in a small contain on my rock tumble and get a nice even coat of powder. I also size after I applying the PC.
Image


Here are a few I used my tumble lube process with while I was playing around with some color mixing although I've pretty much standardized it now to just a few basic colors,bullets haven't been sized through my Lee sizers when the pic was taken so the bearing surfaces are not as smooth.
Image
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Re: polymer coated bullets.

Post by feilerma » Mon Oct 17, 2016 8:44 pm

Have any of you tried these polymer coated or powder coated bullets in a compensated barrel or in a gas operated gun (Desert Eagle). Would they clog things up like lead does?
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Re: polymer coated bullets.

Post by reloader762 » Tue Oct 18, 2016 3:11 am

feilerma wrote:Have any of you tried these polymer coated or powder coated bullets in a compensated barrel or in a gas operated gun (Desert Eagle). Would they clog things up like lead does?
I shoot the Lee .312" 160 gr. RN tumble lubed bullet that has been PC'ed in my SKS rifles with no issues. I don't recall anyone over on the Cast Bullet forum mentioning anything about issues related to gas operated guns.
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Re: polymer coated bullets.

Post by BC38 » Tue Oct 18, 2016 5:45 am

reloader762 wrote:I've been powder coating both pistol and rifle bullets for some time now using both the ES gun as well as the tumble lube process...
By "tumble lube" do you mean putting the bullets in a polystyrene or PVC plastic container full of the uncured powder coating and shaking (tumbling) them around?
Or do you have a different method?
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Re: polymer coated bullets.

Post by edzz » Tue Oct 18, 2016 12:43 pm

BC38 wrote:
reloader762 wrote:I've been powder coating both pistol and rifle bullets for some time now using both the ES gun as well as the tumble lube process...
By "tumble lube" do you mean putting the bullets in a polystyrene or PVC plastic container full of the uncured powder coating and shaking (tumbling) them around?
Or do you have a different method?

Engineers :roll:
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http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthr ... er-coating
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Re: polymer coated bullets.

Post by BC38 » Tue Oct 18, 2016 5:27 pm

edzz wrote:
BC38 wrote:
reloader762 wrote:I've been powder coating both pistol and rifle bullets for some time now using both the ES gun as well as the tumble lube process...
By "tumble lube" do you mean putting the bullets in a polystyrene or PVC plastic container full of the uncured powder coating and shaking (tumbling) them around?
Or do you have a different method?

Engineers :roll:
google is your friend

http://www.300blktalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=90351

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthr ... er-coating
Not quite sure what's with the attitude, or why you felt the need to disparage an entire profession, especially since the question was actually addressed to someone else, but thanks for posting the links anyway.

Since the info at both those linked pages describes pretty much the same process I described, you could have saved yourself a lot of trouble by just saying "yeah, that's how you tumble lube". :roll:

This WAS a friendly discussion. You know, give and take. Ask and answer. No need to make it into anything else.
Last edited by BC38 on Tue Oct 18, 2016 6:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: polymer coated bullets.

Post by reloader762 » Tue Oct 18, 2016 6:14 pm

BC38 wrote:
reloader762 wrote:I've been powder coating both pistol and rifle bullets for some time now using both the ES gun as well as the tumble lube process...
By "tumble lube" do you mean putting the bullets in a polystyrene or PVC plastic container full of the uncured powder coating and shaking (tumbling) them around?
Or do you have a different method?
I do mine a little differently than putting the bullets,powder and black air soft BB's in a cool whip bowl and shaking them around till they are sufficiently coated, I have a small container with a screw on lid that I put all the above contents into an place it on my old rock tumbler an just let the mix tumble while my first batch is curing in the toaster oven for around 20 minutes,the second pic are bullets I did that way. Generally after 10 min. there coated well enough to pick out with a pair of large tweezers and place on my spare baking sheet covered with non stick foil. I generally do about 50 to 100 bullets at a time depending on size and weight an can crank out several hundred in a few hours in one day or spread out over several evening. I do most of my coating in the cooler months when the humidity is low an static electricity is easily created by the plastic container,BB's an powder.

Pc'ed bullets are just one way I lube bullets as I still like to use my RCBS Lube-A-Matic with some of my HV pistol and rifle loads as accuracy seem to be better. I'll probably never go PC all the way as I'm just old fashion I guess but it's always an option.
Last edited by reloader762 on Tue Oct 18, 2016 6:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: polymer coated bullets.

Post by BC38 » Tue Oct 18, 2016 6:18 pm

reloader762 wrote:
BC38 wrote:
reloader762 wrote:I've been powder coating both pistol and rifle bullets for some time now using both the ES gun as well as the tumble lube process...
By "tumble lube" do you mean putting the bullets in a polystyrene or PVC plastic container full of the uncured powder coating and shaking (tumbling) them around?
Or do you have a different method?
I do mine a little differently than putting the bullets,powder and black air soft BB's in a cool whip bowl and shaking them around till they are sufficiently coated. I have a small container with a screw on lid that I put all the above contents into an place it on my old rock tumbler an just let the mix tumble while my first batch is curing in the toaster oven for around 20 minutes. Generally after 10 min. there coated well enough to pick out with a pair of large tweezers and place on my spare baking sheet covered with non stick foil. I generally do about 50 to 100 bullets at a time depending on size and weight an can crank out several hundred in a few hours in one day or spread out over several evening. I do most of my coating in the cooler months when the humidity is low an static electricity is easily created by the plastic container,BB's an powder.

Pc'ed bullets are just one way I lube bullets as I still like to use my RCBS Lube-A-Matic with some of my HV pistol and rifle loads as accuracy seem to be better. I'll probably never go PC all the way as I'm just old fashion I guess but it's always an option.
Thanks for answering my question reloader762. I appreciate you sharing the details of your process, especially since you do it a little differently.
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Re: polymer coated bullets.

Post by Yellowsevenpot » Thu Oct 20, 2016 1:55 pm

reloader762 wrote:I've been powder coating both pistol and rifle bullets for some time now using both the ES gun as well as the tumble lube process and have come to the conclusion that I like the PC'ed pistol bullets very much but for rifle loads where the bullets have standard lube grooves I'm going to stick with my RCBS Lubesizer. It's just easier for me to lube,size and gas check when needed all at one time. I don't have issues with leading in my rifles and handguns anyway so PC bullets are more or an option and convenience in certain situations than anything else and not a necessity.

I haven't really found the PC'ed rifle bullets to be much of any advantage other than using it to mark specific type loads that use the same bullet design in the same cartridge for quick reference ie like my low velocity 150 to 170 gr. 30-30 plinker loads or my Lee 160 gr. TL bullet that I use 12.5 grs. of Alliant 2400 with that will cycle in my Chinese SKS but want in the Yugo SKS. Before I just circled the primer pocket with a colored sharpie and wrote the load notes card that goes in the ammo box in the same color.

In the process of curing the bullets they are baked at 400 degrees for around 20 minutes,if you have water quenched or heat treated your bullets prior the curing process to add hardness it will bring them back to there original BHN. For bullets that I plan to PC I just cast them at the BHN I require to begin with so the curing process has no real bearing on the bullets. Water quenched or bullets that I plan on heat treating just get regular tumble lube or ran through the lubesizer. When your time to enjoy your hobby is limited you just try and keep things simple.

Here are a few bullets I sprayed with the ES gun way back when. I don't use it much anymore as I found I could tumble my bullet in a small contain on my rock tumble and get a nice even coat of powder. I also size after I applying the PC.
Image



Here are a few I used my tumble lube process with while I was playing around with some color mixing although I've pretty much standardized it now to just a few basic colors,bullets haven't been sized through my Lee sizers when the pic was taken so the bearing surfaces are not as smooth.
Image

I need to take some lessons from you. Those look amazing. I have only been powder-coating a little while with harbor freight powder... do you have any experience with it? Are other powders better?

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Re: polymer coated bullets.

Post by reloader762 » Fri Oct 21, 2016 6:55 pm

Yellow,the Red & Yellow bullets at the top are coated with HF Red & Yellow I sprayed those with my HF ES gun. The HF powders are ok but ground a bit course,the Yellow and Red will TL OK but the white & Black do not,all HF colors seem to spray on OK except for the white so I just avoid it. I believe the HF powders are epoxy based

The Green bullet on top is a polyester based powder I picked up locally at a powder coat business cheap as he had a bunch left over from a recent job. It's very finely ground and tumble or sprays on great. Most any of your quality made powders will do just fine tumbled or sprayed on I buy mine from Smoke4320 over on the Cast Boolit Forum http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthr ... ng-bullets
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Re: polymer coated bullets.

Post by reloader762 » Sat Oct 29, 2016 5:05 am

A couple of weeks after posting this thread I was able to pick up some H-4895 to test out in my Mosin with cast bullets using the 60% starting load Hodgdon has instructions for on there web site using H-4895 reduced loads.

After calculating my starting load at 60% I just went ahead and move up to 75% for a starting load as I figured I would be close to the original MV I was getting using 19 grs. of 2400. It was pretty much spot on with the three loads I had for testing all grouped as well as the 2400 load with the final load of 33.0 grs. tested giving me a MV of around 1750 fps. on the chrono.

It's was pretty obvious that I needed to do two things with my next batch of test loads,one is to increase the powder charge weight as cases are not fully expanding to seal the neck and when I lube my next batch of test bullets to no lube the top exposed lube groove as it just getting blow off. There were no pressure signs with any of the loads and chrono data was excellent in helping determine the need for a better case fill as all the number improved and were more consistent as the charge weight went up with no loss if accuracy.

One of the bright spot was when I shot a batch of 5 test rds. I loaded up on a whim. I came across five Lee 170 gr. GC RNFP bullet that I usually shoot in my 30-30 that I had PC'ed and sized to .314" so I loaded those up using my last set charge weight of 33.0 grs. of H-4895 and got this result. I'm going to have to add some of those to the test back I'll be shooting next weekend as well with the higher test charge weight loads.
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Re: polymer coated bullets.

Post by BC38 » Tue Nov 08, 2016 8:24 pm

reloader762 wrote:Yellow,the Red & Yellow bullets at the top are coated with HF Red & Yellow I sprayed those with my HF ES gun. The HF powders are ok but ground a bit course,the Yellow and Red will TL OK but the white & Black do not,all HF colors seem to spray on OK except for the white so I just avoid it. I believe the HF powders are epoxy based

The Green bullet on top is a polyester based powder I picked up locally at a powder coat business cheap as he had a bunch left over from a recent job. It's very finely ground and tumble or sprays on great. Most any of your quality made powders will do just fine tumbled or sprayed on I buy mine from Smoke4320 over on the Cast Boolit Forum http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthr ... ng-bullets
Hey reloader, is it possible to mix the black in with other colors and get it to tumble lube?

I just picked up 250 unlubed 38/357 LWC 148gr cast and I'd like to try coating them just for grins.

For colors, I'm not too crazy about red OR yellow - or even the bright orange you'd get from mixing them 50/50.
But if I could mix in some black and make it a DARK orange - kind of copper colored - I could live with that.

I'd really like to go with plain black, but if it won't tumble lube that's a non-starter for me. Because I'm wanting to give it a try - but I don't want to invest money in equipment just to try it and see if it is something I want to do more of - or not.

Any suggestions?
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Re: polymer coated bullets.

Post by reloader762 » Wed Nov 09, 2016 3:04 pm

Double Post
Last edited by reloader762 on Wed Nov 09, 2016 3:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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