Action vs reaction

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Action vs reaction

Post by 30calholemaker » Fri Oct 14, 2016 5:44 pm

Victory favors neither the Righteous nor the Wicked; It favors the prepared.
The problem with today's society, is we no longer drink from the skulls of our enemies

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Re: Action vs reaction

Post by Orphan » Fri Oct 14, 2016 7:26 pm

The same standard should apply to everyone not just LE.

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Re: Action vs reaction

Post by 30calholemaker » Sat Oct 15, 2016 6:01 am

Orphan wrote:The same standard should apply to everyone not just LE.
Why wouldn't it?
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Re: Action vs reaction

Post by Orphan » Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:31 pm

30calholemaker wrote:
Orphan wrote:The same standard should apply to everyone not just LE.
Why wouldn't it?
LE gets more slack than regular folks do, just the way it is.

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Re: Action vs reaction

Post by 30calholemaker » Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:40 pm

Orphan wrote:
30calholemaker wrote:
Orphan wrote:The same standard should apply to everyone not just LE.
Why wouldn't it?
LE gets more slack than regular folks do, just the way it is.

So you aren't buying the video? And some how you believe this only applies to LE? I don't think LE has gotten any slack over the past year.
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Re: Action vs reaction

Post by JeremyD » Sun Oct 16, 2016 6:02 pm

Great video!

Thank you for sharing this :)

Oh BTW...I shot the guy with the phone :oops:

Good thing I sell tires :D

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Re: Action vs reaction

Post by hatchdog » Mon Oct 17, 2016 6:06 am

At first I didn't take the time to watch the video but I am glad I did. This is a great eye opener to us civilians looking at a threat from the point of view of an officer. I encourage all looking at this post to take the six minutes to watch.

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Re: Action vs reaction

Post by bladebum » Mon Oct 17, 2016 6:34 am

Good video... :)
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Re: Action vs reaction

Post by Orphan » Mon Oct 17, 2016 6:37 pm

30calholemaker wrote:
Orphan wrote:[quote="30calholemaker"


So you aren't buying the video? And some how you believe this only applies to LE? I don't think LE has gotten any slack over the past year.
You are reading way too much into my comment.

As far as the video goes it is a set up, of course most everyone will shoot the guy with the cell phone the third time. In the real world only the first time counts. If I were a cop and the guy was not listening and reached into the pickup like that I would likely shoot him every time as should every cop and regular Joe in the same circumstances.

The difference is If I am in a confrontation with someone and they reach into a pickup and I shoot them I am a lot more likely to be prosecuted than a cop that does the same exact thing.

That is the way it is and to a point cops need some additional protection simply because of the job they do.

Honestly if I were to shoot someone that reached into a pickup window during a confrontation would you arrest me?

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Re: Action vs reaction

Post by BC38 » Mon Oct 17, 2016 7:43 pm

Well, FWIW, it seems to me that cops aren't getting much additional "slack" these days what with all the BLM and SJWs and crap Monday morning quarterbacking them.

I've always felt that if a cop pointing a gun at tells you to keep your hands in plain sight and/or to hit the dirt face down or put both hands on the fender or whatever, if you do ANYTHING else and you get shot, then you're an idiot and got what you deserved.

However, I have to agree with Orphan's statement that if I draw down on someone and tell them to put their hands up, but they reach into their vehicle instead and I shoot them, I'm probably going to jail. IF they actually have a gun in their possession AND have a criminal record, I just MIGHT be found innocent by reason of self defense, but then again, I might NOT.

The difference being that I am not an LEO and have no responsibility to enforce the law. I am also not automatically a target for the murderous segment criminal element like LEOs are.
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Re: Action vs reaction

Post by Orphan » Tue Oct 18, 2016 5:15 pm

BC38 wrote:
The difference being that I am not an LEO and have no responsibility to enforce the law. I am also not automatically a target for the murderous segment criminal element like LEOs are.
Seems to me that we all face the same bad guys everyday. How many non Leos are killed by that murderous segment criminal element vs how many Leos are killed? I beg to differ but a lot more non Leos are killed than Leos. Just to be clear neither is acceptable to me.

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Re: Action vs reaction

Post by BC38 » Tue Oct 18, 2016 6:01 pm

Orphan wrote:
BC38 wrote:
The difference being that I am not an LEO and have no responsibility to enforce the law. I am also not automatically a target for the murderous segment criminal element like LEOs are.
Seems to me that we all face the same bad guys everyday. How many non Leos are killed by that murderous segment criminal element vs how many Leos are killed? I beg to differ but a lot more non Leos are killed than Leos. Just to be clear neither is acceptable to me.
I agree that higher numbers of non-LEO are murdered. No question about that. But non-LEOs outnumber LEOs by about 10,000 to 1 too.

The question is which group has the higher risk and the higher percentage of people murdered - LEO or non-LEO? In 2015 there were approximately 900,000 police officers and 86 police intentionally killed in the line of duty. That is just under 10 deaths per 100,000. That is a lot higher than the general per capita murder rate of about 5 per 100,000.

Because they are actually pursuing criminals and are not just potential victims, but are actual TARGETS of the worst types of criminals, and because they have to work closely with the criminal element, they are at least twice as likely to get shot or killed as an ordinary citizen. Where you and I just have to avoid being in the wrong place at the wrong time to run afoul of the gad guys, it is the LEO's JOB to go to those "wrong" places in pursuit of the bad guys.
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Re: Action vs reaction

Post by BigDeeeeeeee » Tue Oct 18, 2016 7:56 pm

BC38 wrote:
Orphan wrote:
BC38 wrote:
The difference being that I am not an LEO and have no responsibility to enforce the law. I am also not automatically a target for the murderous segment criminal element like LEOs are.
Seems to me that we all face the same bad guys everyday. How many non Leos are killed by that murderous segment criminal element vs how many Leos are killed? I beg to differ but a lot more non Leos are killed than Leos. Just to be clear neither is acceptable to me.
I agree that higher numbers of non-LEO are murdered. No question about that. But non-LEOs outnumber LEOs by about 10,000 to 1 too.

The question is which group has the higher risk and the higher percentage of people murdered - LEO or non-LEO? In 2015 there were approximately 900,000 police officers and 86 police intentionally killed in the line of duty. That is just under 10 deaths per 100,000. That is a lot higher than the general per capita murder rate of about 5 per 100,000.

Because they are actually pursuing criminals and are not just potential victims, but are actual TARGETS of the worst types of criminals, and because they have to work closely with the criminal element, they are at least twice as likely to get shot or killed as an ordinary citizen. Where you and I just have to avoid being in the wrong place at the wrong time to run afoul of the gad guys, it is the LEO's JOB to go to those "wrong" places in pursuit of the bad guys.
Figuring 320 million Americans that puts the ratio closer to 350 to 1.
Darren

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Re: Action vs reaction

Post by BC38 » Tue Oct 18, 2016 8:03 pm

BigDeeeeeeee wrote:
BC38 wrote:
Orphan wrote:
BC38 wrote:
The difference being that I am not an LEO and have no responsibility to enforce the law. I am also not automatically a target for the murderous segment criminal element like LEOs are.
Seems to me that we all face the same bad guys everyday. How many non Leos are killed by that murderous segment criminal element vs how many Leos are killed? I beg to differ but a lot more non Leos are killed than Leos. Just to be clear neither is acceptable to me.
I agree that higher numbers of non-LEO are murdered. No question about that. But non-LEOs outnumber LEOs by about 10,000 to 1 too.

The question is which group has the higher risk and the higher percentage of people murdered - LEO or non-LEO? In 2015 there were approximately 900,000 police officers and 86 police intentionally killed in the line of duty. That is just under 10 deaths per 100,000. That is a lot higher than the general per capita murder rate of about 5 per 100,000.

Because they are actually pursuing criminals and are not just potential victims, but are actual TARGETS of the worst types of criminals, and because they have to work closely with the criminal element, they are at least twice as likely to get shot or killed as an ordinary citizen. Where you and I just have to avoid being in the wrong place at the wrong time to run afoul of the gad guys, it is the LEO's JOB to go to those "wrong" places in pursuit of the bad guys.
Figuring 320 million Americans that puts the ratio closer to 350 to 1.
You are of course correct. I must've mis-read that stat.

Doesn't invalidate the point though, that point being that being outnumbered 350 to 1 is why the raw number of non-LEO murders far exceeds the number of LEO murders...
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Re: Action vs reaction

Post by BigDeeeeeeee » Tue Oct 18, 2016 8:14 pm

BC38 wrote:
BigDeeeeeeee wrote:
BC38 wrote:
Orphan wrote:
BC38 wrote:
The difference being that I am not an LEO and have no responsibility to enforce the law. I am also not automatically a target for the murderous segment criminal element like LEOs are.
Seems to me that we all face the same bad guys everyday. How many non Leos are killed by that murderous segment criminal element vs how many Leos are killed? I beg to differ but a lot more non Leos are killed than Leos. Just to be clear neither is acceptable to me.
I agree that higher numbers of non-LEO are murdered. No question about that. But non-LEOs outnumber LEOs by about 10,000 to 1 too.

The question is which group has the higher risk and the higher percentage of people murdered - LEO or non-LEO? In 2015 there were approximately 900,000 police officers and 86 police intentionally killed in the line of duty. That is just under 10 deaths per 100,000. That is a lot higher than the general per capita murder rate of about 5 per 100,000.

Because they are actually pursuing criminals and are not just potential victims, but are actual TARGETS of the worst types of criminals, and because they have to work closely with the criminal element, they are at least twice as likely to get shot or killed as an ordinary citizen. Where you and I just have to avoid being in the wrong place at the wrong time to run afoul of the gad guys, it is the LEO's JOB to go to those "wrong" places in pursuit of the bad guys.
Figuring 320 million Americans that puts the ratio closer to 350 to 1.
You are of course correct. I must've mis-read that stat.

Doesn't invalidate the point though, that point being that being outnumbered 350 to 1 is why the raw number of non-LEO murders far exceeds the number of LEO murders...
Yeah, only the really crazy ones go out of their way to kill a cop. Most bad characters go about screwing with people while trying to avoid the police.

As for the OPs video, that's why I do the best I can to avoid confrontation these days.
Darren

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Re: Action vs reaction

Post by BC38 » Tue Oct 18, 2016 8:32 pm

BigDeeeeeeee wrote:Yeah, only the really crazy ones go out of their way to kill a cop. Most bad characters go about screwing with people while trying to avoid the police.
Very true, Unfortunately there are an increasing number of them that are just that crazy - as evidenced by the rising number of cops killed in the line of duty.
BigDeeeeeeee wrote:As for the OPs video, that's why I do the best I can to avoid confrontation these days.
That is and always has been the best course of action - especially for those of us who carry.
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Re: Action vs reaction

Post by mauser54 » Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:02 am

Excellent video. Thankyou for posting this 30cal. Really makes a person really think about various different situations that can arise, the time involved in a proper accessment of the threat and to react to the threat as properly as possible in the right amount of time. And you put yourself into this situation everyday when your on and off duty. This is something that most people that are not Law Enforcement don't think about and should especially if they conceal carry or open carry and a perceived threat does arise. I will probably rewatch this video again.
Again Thankyou for posting it.
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