Question about blade legality

[MyGlockGentlyWeeps]

I Have a Gerber Mk II knife that I bought just as a blade to have and sometimes take it with me if I go on a quick walk or something, mostly just a collection think or something I keep next to my glock and flashlight on the nightstand. I know it is considered a dagger and I have to have it in the open view to have it be legal if I carry it. I understand that part. I know I could get my CWP, which I have considered. Not a fan of databases and government knowledge about its own citizens, but whatever. So my question is does this apply to any fixed blade of any length in WA state? I was considering getting one of the Ka-Bar USMC fighting/utility style knifes that has a blade of under 6 inches. This is not really a dagger or dirk style and the blade is shorter than a MK II. However I'm wondering if I had the ka-bar would it have to be out in the open or is it in a different class from the mk II and can be concealed? Thanks for any knowledge anyone has on this.

[edzz]

look here
http://www.knifeup.com/washington-knife-laws/

[MyGlockGentlyWeeps]

Thanks. Pretty much everything I can see is that anything with a fixed blade is considered a deadly weapon and could be considered illegal how the this law reads if you conceal it.

[jr1982]

I don't think a concealed pistol permit covers you for knives. I have automatics and butterfly knives that I carry whenever I feel like it. My main workhorse is a Bradley mayhem bali. They way I figure it is I don't plan on doing anything to get arrested so I'm ok. It's all how you act. If you have a big knife strapped to your side and are making people nervous you may get into trouble. Act normal and your likely to be fine.

Here's my Bradley:

[R.J.]

It is my understanding that there is no restriction on fixed blade length. Only certain folders, auto-knives & double-edged blades. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[bladebum]

jr1982:
I don't think a concealed pistol permit covers you for knives.

Correct...

[bladebum]

Here's a helpful link: http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/USKnife2.pdf

It's the local restrictions that's the problem. We need a state preemption like we have in firearms.

[MyGlockGentlyWeeps]

OK thanks for the advice, and yea I'm not really worried about police, if you don't do anything to cause any trouble cops usually could careless about you and (mostly) never harass normal people. I was confused on the permit, I swore I read somewhere or heard from someone that a Concealed weapons permit is fine for any weapon, but I must be mistaken or is Washington just CPL and there is no way to conceal a fixed blade legally? I'm not worried at all really, I was just curious as I really like a fixed blade knife. I have plenty of other things for protection, and I'm not one of those people that walks around with a weapon just so I can hopefully use it sometime. I don't walk into places and think of scenarios of crazy things like you may here some people talk about, very few people ever have to use their weapon and I just don't think it's worth living your life in anticipation of something like that happening. Way I see it, is if something happens then it happens, the scenario won't play out how you thought most likely, but the best thing you can do it just have your weapon and be prepared. I don't live my life in anticipation of using a weapon and hope I never have to. But if I did I just want to have the knife I like not something I have to compromise for. Aren't switchblades and butterfly knives illegal in WA also? Obviously for it to be illegal you also have to be charged with it in your possession and the chances of that happening are slim to none, so I get why people don't care, I'm just curious about how the law actually reads, but I'm not sure if that's even possible to decipher this with the way the laws are written. Nothing seems to be clear cut when it comes to this stuff.

[R.J.]

From edzz's link:


What is Legal to Own

It is legal to own a dirk, dagger, or other stabbing knife
It is legal to own bowie knife
It is legal to own a stiletto
It is legal to own a disguised knife, such as a lipstick or belt buckle
It is legal to own throwing stars


What is Illegal to Own

It is illegal to own a switchblade or other spring blade knife in the state of Washington.


Restrictions on Carry

It is illegal to conceal carry a dirk
It is illegal to conceal carry a dagger
It is illegal to conceal carry any dangerous weapon
It is illegal to open or conceal carry any weapon into a Courtroom

As far as I can tell from the written law here in WA we have no concealed carry permits for knives, only pistols. As far as pocket knives(folders) go I would think they would have to be exempt otherwise at least half the popualtion would be in violation. I carry a Benchmade folder w/ pocket- clip....not worried about it. The messed up thing I noticed in edzz's link is that according the one of the listed cases you don't have have to "intend" to cause alarm when carrying a weapon in open form in order to be charged w/ said violation. So if Suzie soccer-mom sees you carrying a pistol or knife in the grocery line & freaks out you could technically be charged. That's messed up.

[MyGlockGentlyWeeps]

Yea I read somewhere in one of your guys links that a folder of any length is pretty much fine to conceal. I'm not worried about any type of problems with being caught in violation of anything, just wondering how the actual laws read. I'm sure everyone has ran into to that guy that wants to try and tell you how the law is, but he really has no idea and is just a A-hole that can't mind his own business. I just like to be able to tell people like them to politely shove it, and do it knowing I'm right. Knife laws are not as specific as gun laws seem to be (most of the time). But thanks for everybodys help, it makes a lot more sense now than it did.

[ron]

Reading the law word for word, there is one very important point: (b) Furtively carries with intent to conceal any dagger, dirk, pistol, or other dangerous weapon

I would think that if you're going about your business peacefully that you aren't doing anything "Furtively". Basically if you're friendly and cooperative with the police they'll have no reason to search you in the first place and even if they saw that you were wearing a belt knife under a jacket or something they just might not concern themselves with whether or not it was a dagger. And if you really wanted to make sure you didn't have a problem with your Gerber you could grind one edge slightly so that it became a false edge. and it would no longer technically be a "Dagger".

RCW 9.41.250

Dangerous weapons—Penalty.


(1) Every person who:

(a) Manufactures, sells, or disposes of or possesses any instrument or weapon of the kind usually known as slung shot, sand club, or metal knuckles, or spring blade knife;

(b) Furtively carries with intent to conceal any dagger, dirk, pistol, or other dangerous weapon; or

(c) Uses any contrivance or device for suppressing the noise of any firearm unless the suppressor is legally registered and possessed in accordance with federal law,

is guilty of a gross misdemeanor punishable under chapter 9A.20 RCW.

(2) "Spring blade knife" means any knife, including a prototype, model, or other sample, with a blade that is automatically released by a spring mechanism or other mechanical device, or any knife having a blade which opens, or falls, or is ejected into position by the force of gravity, or by an outward, downward, or centrifugal thrust or movement. A knife that contains a spring, detent, or other mechanism designed to create a bias toward closure of the blade and that requires physical exertion applied to the blade by hand, wrist, or arm to overcome the bias toward closure to assist in opening the knife is not a spring blade knife.

[bladebum]

I agree with ron concerning the State law. Please don't forget about the local City laws that might apply. For example, Cheney has a no conceal law for any length blade other than an ordinary pocket knife (whatever that is).

https://law.resource.org/pub/us/code/ci ... olders.pdf

9A.07.020 Carrying pistol or other concealed weapon.
(a) Except in the person's place of abode or fixed place of business, a person shall not carry a pistol
concealed on his or her person without a license to carry a concealed weapon.
(b) A person who is in possession of an unloaded pistol shall not leave the unloaded pistol in a vehicle
unless the unloaded pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.
(c) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry
a concealed weapon, and:
(1) The pistol is on the licensee's person;
(2) The licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there; or
(3) The licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed
from view from outside the vehicle.
(d) No person shall carry concealed upon his person any knife (other than an ordinary pocket knife), or
any dirk or dagger, slingshot or metal knuckles or sap, or any instrument by the use of which injury could
be inflicted upon the person or property of another. Carrying a concealed weapon is a gross misdemeanor.
(e) The municipal judge, as part of the time and penalty imposed under this section, shall have power
to and is authorized in the exercise of his discretion, to order that any such weapon taken from any person
convicted of a violation of this section be forfeited to the city.
(Ord. No. M-29, § 1, 1983; Ord. No. K-26, § 1, 1978; Ord. No. J-44, § 4(part), 1976)

Seattle has a 3 1/2" limit on any blade. Richland has a 4" limit. etc. etc.

See here for more local laws: http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/USKnife2.pdf

[R.J.]

I see that Spokane is not even listed so I HAVE to assume that state law dictates. The only thing that state law says(according to link) is that folders are allowed & there is no blade length restriction(carried openly). So, I could legally carry a Kukri(openly) in Spokane.

[bladebum]

Again, I see that Spokane is not even listed so I HAVE to assume that state law dictates. The only thing that state law says(according to link) is that folders are allowed & there is no blade length restriction(carried openly). I'm off to buy a Kukri.

Good to go...

[R.J.]

Sweet .

[ron]

I agree with ron concerning the State law. Please don't forget about the local City laws that might apply. For example, Cheney has a no conceal law for any length blade other than an ordinary pocket knife (whatever that is).

https://law.resource.org/pub/us/code/ci ... olders.pdf

9A.07.020 Carrying pistol or other concealed weapon.
(a) Except in the person's place of abode or fixed place of business, a person shall not carry a pistol
concealed on his or her person without a license to carry a concealed weapon.
(b) A person who is in possession of an unloaded pistol shall not leave the unloaded pistol in a vehicle
unless the unloaded pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.
(c) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry
a concealed weapon, and:
(1) The pistol is on the licensee's person;
(2) The licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there; or
(3) The licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed
from view from outside the vehicle.
(d) No person shall carry concealed upon his person any knife (other than an ordinary pocket knife), or
any dirk or dagger, slingshot or metal knuckles or sap, or any instrument by the use of which injury could
be inflicted upon the person or property of another. Carrying a concealed weapon is a gross misdemeanor.
(e) The municipal judge, as part of the time and penalty imposed under this section, shall have power
to and is authorized in the exercise of his discretion, to order that any such weapon taken from any person
convicted of a violation of this section be forfeited to the city.
(Ord. No. M-29, § 1, 1983; Ord. No. K-26, § 1, 1978; Ord. No. J-44, § 4(part), 1976)

Seattle has a 3 1/2" limit on any blade. Richland has a 4" limit. etc. etc.

See here for more local laws: http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/USKnife2.pdf

I found this on another website for the city of Cheney. Once again much is left up to the discretion of the investigating officer and that depends largely on your personal demeanor and how well you get along with any LEO who you happen to come in contact with under any circumstances.

9A.07.030 - Carrying, exhibiting, displaying, or drawing weapons apparently capable of producing bodily harm.

(1)

It is unlawful for anyone to carry, exhibit, display or draw any firearm, dagger, sword, knife or other cutting or stabbing instrument, club, or any other weapon apparently capable of producing bodily harm, in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons.

jr1982 put it very well. He said in part: "The way I figure it is I don't plan on doing anything to get arrested so I'm ok. It's all how you act. Act normal and you're likely to be fine."

https://www.municode.com/library/wa/che ... CAPIOTCOWE

[bladebum]

Yes... very similar to the state. http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41.270

RCW 9.41.270
Weapons apparently capable of producing bodily harm—Unlawful carrying or handling—Penalty—Exceptions.

(1) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry, exhibit, display, or draw any firearm, dagger, sword, knife or other cutting or stabbing instrument, club, or any other weapon apparently capable of producing bodily harm, in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons.
(2) Any person violating the provisions of subsection (1) above shall be guilty of a gross misdemeanor. If any person is convicted of a violation of subsection (1) of this section, the person shall lose his or her concealed pistol license, if any. The court shall send notice of the revocation to the department of licensing, and the city, town, or county which issued the license.
(3) Subsection (1) of this section shall not apply to or affect the following:
(a) Any act committed by a person while in his or her place of abode or fixed place of business;
(b) Any person who by virtue of his or her office or public employment is vested by law with a duty to preserve public safety, maintain public order, or to make arrests for offenses, while in the performance of such duty;
(c) Any person acting for the purpose of protecting himself or herself against the use of presently threatened unlawful force by another, or for the purpose of protecting another against the use of such unlawful force by a third person;
(d) Any person making or assisting in making a lawful arrest for the commission of a felony; or
(e) Any person engaged in military activities sponsored by the federal or state governments.
[1994 sp.s. c 7 § 426; 1969 c 8 § 1.]

[ron]

What is an unjust law? When law supersedes common sense such law has the dangerous potential to be applied in an unjust manner.

[Call Turner]

Once again: http://www.examiner.com/article/the-rig ... 1385857727

[bladebum]

Once again: http://www.examiner.com/article/the-rig ... 1385857727

Good post.