Deer/elk rifle
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Deer/elk rifle
I understand I'm about to poke the proverbial bear with a stick. But, what is considered a good/great deer gun that could take down an elk? I've never hunted elk before but if the chance ever arose I want something that would do the job. Leaning towards a 270/308.
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Re: Deer/elk rifle
If I could go back and do it again, I would have gotten a 308. Enough power and range for most hunting. Ammo is relatively cheap. Recoil is light. Good starter gun. I'm not saying 308 is the king of all hunting(I'm an 06 guy myself) but it's a time proven round. Price of shells are what separates it from most. As for the rifle, anything will do. Any rifle you can find will be plenty accurate and plenty durable for hunting. Hit up some pawn shops. I recently bought a savage 300 win mag for $220. Walnut stock with not a scratch on it. There are good deals to be had.
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Re: Deer/elk rifle
Is there a caliber in your opinion to stay away from? Think 25-06 is as low as i would want to go.
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Re: Deer/elk rifle
I personally wouldn't choose a 25-06. Simply because I believe a 270 will do everything a 25 can do and more. For just deer a 25-06 or a 243 would work great. But you mentioned possible elk. I would say stick to basic popular hunting calibers. (308,270,30-06) ammo is available, effective, and relatively cheap considering the firepower you get out of them.
Re: Deer/elk rifle
While the 308 is one of my favorites and my go to gun in most circumstances, you would be hard pressed to find a better all around cartridge than the 30-06. I personally don't hunt with the 06 as it doesn't do anything for me in my conditions that the 308 does not. The greatest advantage either of these non-magnum cartridges offers over the 270 is bullet weight selections. 110 to 200+. Both perform extremely well with 165 grain bullets while the 06 will handle the 180's better than the 308. Less bullet drop at longer distances but if shooting within 200-300 yards with the 308, know your bullet drop.
All opinions aside, buy what suits you best but pay attention to bullet selections. The 270 with proper bullet is very effective. Elk are a thicker skin and bone animal so your bullet selection should match. As an example, the Swift Scirocco is a rapidly expanding bullet and excellent medicine on deer. It will not offer the deeper penetration characteristics like the Swift A-Frame, which has a slower controlled expansion rate for deeper penetration on elk and bear. The A-Frame will act more like a fmj on deer sized game with less expansion and smaller wound channel.
Ammo for all three are readily available and some quite inexpensive. Use the inexpensive ammo for practice but buy or load a quality projectile for hunting and sight in for that ammo. Shot placement is the key but a poor performing bullet for the conditions can cause its own issues.
All opinions aside, buy what suits you best but pay attention to bullet selections. The 270 with proper bullet is very effective. Elk are a thicker skin and bone animal so your bullet selection should match. As an example, the Swift Scirocco is a rapidly expanding bullet and excellent medicine on deer. It will not offer the deeper penetration characteristics like the Swift A-Frame, which has a slower controlled expansion rate for deeper penetration on elk and bear. The A-Frame will act more like a fmj on deer sized game with less expansion and smaller wound channel.
Ammo for all three are readily available and some quite inexpensive. Use the inexpensive ammo for practice but buy or load a quality projectile for hunting and sight in for that ammo. Shot placement is the key but a poor performing bullet for the conditions can cause its own issues.
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Re: Deer/elk rifle
So it sounds like 270/308/3006/300 is the way to go. Any particular brand and or make and model to stay away from?
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Re: Deer/elk rifle
Nope. No one makes an awful rifle these days.bmm56 wrote:So it sounds like 270/308/3006/300 is the way to go. Any particular brand and or make and model to stay away from?
Make a list of what is important to you and narrow it down. Caliber is only part of it. Every manufacturer makes rifles in those calibers.
Stainless? Easier to take care of.
Magazine fed? If you do a lot of scouting via roads or in any kind of vehicle, a magazine is nice.
Lots of walking? Might want a lightweight barrel/stock/action combo.
Etc.
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Re: Deer/elk rifle
Ruger American in .308 can be had for just a little over $300. Synthetic stock, Ruger customer service, adjustable trigger, removable mag and really accurate right out of the box. Mine even came with a picatinny rail, stock. Great option at a smoking price.
Re: Deer/elk rifle
hkcavalier is correct. Every center fire manufacturer makes a rifle in these calibers and the less expensive models definitely have a solid following. A few years ago, Remington made, I believe it was, a 710 which was trying to compete with the Savage 110. It was a miserable failure and discontinued. It was, by my understanding, redesigned and improved upon and now called the 770. Now, manufacturers want not only to sell their product, they want to keep their reputation. I have not handled the 770, don't know the looks and feel of it and don't know its quality. The difference in price tags between economy, moderate and high end are mostly due to fit, finish, features and looks. IE, a detachable box steel magazine model with a beautiful walnut stock and rosewood forend tip will cost more than a plain wood stock with pressed checkering and an internal magazine with no floor plate. I was very skeptical of the Ruger American rifles when they were introduced, as these are made to fill the needs of the dollar savvy and compete on the lower end of the spectrum, but I have read, from unbiased sources, of the quality and good accuracy. Savage has always had a very good reputation for an entry level gun and quality. Savage does make some expensive stuff as well. Both support their products very well.
hkcavalier is also correct in what you want it to do and how you will use it. If you are going to use a 16 or an 18" barrel for portability and moving around in heavy brush, a .30-06 or a magnum means you will have a much larger muzzle flash to help cook the meat at close range and they will not perform to their capabilities or velocities because there is not enough barrel there to burn the powder. The 300 uses a slow burning powder to produce its high velocities, which requires longer barrels. The 30-06 uses either slow or medium burn rate powders to meet its performance levels. The 308 mostly uses medium burn rate powders to produce its velocities but loose velocity with shorter barrels as well. Most magnums have 26" barrels while the non magnums run with 24 inchers. There are some magnums out there with shorter barrels which use newer powders and still maintain their velocities. Think about where you will be hunting, how you will be hunting and moving around. Close range, medium range, long range or a combination of two or all three of these. Climbing steep hillsides and long hikes, a 10 pound gun gets very heavy. Setting on a hill top and glassing across open fields, a 10 pound gun won't make a difference, unless you have to walk a really long way to get there. If short range in heavy timber or brush is your primary hunting grounds, a shorter barrel is a plus.
Yes, you get what you pay for, but don't be fooled into believing you will only get a good quality hunting rifle by spending $700+. Should you spend $700-1000 for a rifle? Sure, if you want to. Will you be disappointed by spending $700-1000 on a rifle? Probably not, only if you got a lemon or if you drop it down the side of a mountain and beat the crap out of it. You will also be a bit disappointed in that $300 rifle if you bump it against something hard and the irreplaceable plastic trigger guard is cracked and broken. (Yes, I speak from experience on that one piece molded receiver, stock and trigger guard combo. No, I didn't drop it) Should you only spend $300 on a rifle? I would suggest saving a little while longer to step it up a touch.
When figuring your budget, don't forget your optics. Several of the gun/scope packages come with fair to mediocre scopes. Some are good. Purchase a very good optic, or an excellent optic, something with a lifetime warranty, Burris, Leupold, Nikon, Vortex, just to name a few. There are several others. You don't necessarily need to put a $1000 scope on a $400 rifle, but stay away from the cheap stuff.
You didn't mention the 300 in your original post so I didn't discuss it in mine. If you purchase a magnum, keep in mind the difference in recoil. Especially with lighter weight guns and heavier bullets. The magnums tend to be overkill for deer at ranges out to 200 yards. They have the added benefit of flatter trajectory and longer range with less hold over, but you will feel the difference. Not to say you can't handle it, but a long day at the range, I personally prefer to shoot a lot and enjoy my experience with out the back and blue. With that mentioned, I will say again, buy what you want which suits your needs.
With all the choices out there.... Isn't America great?
hkcavalier is also correct in what you want it to do and how you will use it. If you are going to use a 16 or an 18" barrel for portability and moving around in heavy brush, a .30-06 or a magnum means you will have a much larger muzzle flash to help cook the meat at close range and they will not perform to their capabilities or velocities because there is not enough barrel there to burn the powder. The 300 uses a slow burning powder to produce its high velocities, which requires longer barrels. The 30-06 uses either slow or medium burn rate powders to meet its performance levels. The 308 mostly uses medium burn rate powders to produce its velocities but loose velocity with shorter barrels as well. Most magnums have 26" barrels while the non magnums run with 24 inchers. There are some magnums out there with shorter barrels which use newer powders and still maintain their velocities. Think about where you will be hunting, how you will be hunting and moving around. Close range, medium range, long range or a combination of two or all three of these. Climbing steep hillsides and long hikes, a 10 pound gun gets very heavy. Setting on a hill top and glassing across open fields, a 10 pound gun won't make a difference, unless you have to walk a really long way to get there. If short range in heavy timber or brush is your primary hunting grounds, a shorter barrel is a plus.
Yes, you get what you pay for, but don't be fooled into believing you will only get a good quality hunting rifle by spending $700+. Should you spend $700-1000 for a rifle? Sure, if you want to. Will you be disappointed by spending $700-1000 on a rifle? Probably not, only if you got a lemon or if you drop it down the side of a mountain and beat the crap out of it. You will also be a bit disappointed in that $300 rifle if you bump it against something hard and the irreplaceable plastic trigger guard is cracked and broken. (Yes, I speak from experience on that one piece molded receiver, stock and trigger guard combo. No, I didn't drop it) Should you only spend $300 on a rifle? I would suggest saving a little while longer to step it up a touch.
When figuring your budget, don't forget your optics. Several of the gun/scope packages come with fair to mediocre scopes. Some are good. Purchase a very good optic, or an excellent optic, something with a lifetime warranty, Burris, Leupold, Nikon, Vortex, just to name a few. There are several others. You don't necessarily need to put a $1000 scope on a $400 rifle, but stay away from the cheap stuff.
You didn't mention the 300 in your original post so I didn't discuss it in mine. If you purchase a magnum, keep in mind the difference in recoil. Especially with lighter weight guns and heavier bullets. The magnums tend to be overkill for deer at ranges out to 200 yards. They have the added benefit of flatter trajectory and longer range with less hold over, but you will feel the difference. Not to say you can't handle it, but a long day at the range, I personally prefer to shoot a lot and enjoy my experience with out the back and blue. With that mentioned, I will say again, buy what you want which suits your needs.
With all the choices out there.... Isn't America great?
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Re: Deer/elk rifle
Finally someone who knows what they are talking about when it comes to the 308 verse the 06garand wrote:While the 308 is one of my favorites and my go to gun in most circumstances, you would be hard pressed to find a better all around cartridge than the 30-06. I personally don't hunt with the 06 as it doesn't do anything for me in my conditions that the 308 does not. The greatest advantage either of these non-magnum cartridges offers over the 270 is bullet weight selections. 110 to 200+. Both perform extremely well with 165 grain bullets while the 06 will handle the 180's better than the 308. Less bullet drop at longer distances but if shooting within 200-300 yards with the 308, know your bullet drop.
All opinions aside, buy what suits you best but pay attention to bullet selections. The 270 with proper bullet is very effective. Elk are a thicker skin and bone animal so your bullet selection should match. As an example, the Swift Scirocco is a rapidly expanding bullet and excellent medicine on deer. It will not offer the deeper penetration characteristics like the Swift A-Frame, which has a slower controlled expansion rate for deeper penetration on elk and bear. The A-Frame will act more like a fmj on deer sized game with less expansion and smaller wound channel.
Ammo for all three are readily available and some quite inexpensive. Use the inexpensive ammo for practice but buy or load a quality projectile for hunting and sight in for that ammo. Shot placement is the key but a poor performing bullet for the conditions can cause its own issues.
POW MIA YOU ARE NOT FORGOTTEN
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Re: Deer/elk rifle
So I went with a howa 1500 in 270. Took it out to mica and ran a couple boxes of 130 grain through her and this gun shoots awesome! I on the otherhand need more range time.
Re: Deer/elk rifle
Congrats. Happy hunting
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Re: Deer/elk rifle
The optics om it while not horrible, are not amazing. What would be a good quality scope that can push a reasonable accurate 500 yards without breaking the bank? Currently have a nikon stirling gameking 3.5x10x44
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Re: Deer/elk rifle
I have vortex vipers on two of my rifles. They are the best quality for the money IMO. Crystal clear glass.
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Re: Deer/elk rifle
+1, not the least expensive scope but well worth what you pay for one.Rigger28 wrote:I have vortex vipers on two of my rifles. They are the best quality for the money IMO. Crystal clear glass.
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Re: Deer/elk rifle
For the money I love redfield Scopesbmm56 wrote:The optics om it while not horrible, are not amazing. What would be a good quality scope that can push a reasonable accurate 500 yards without breaking the bank? Currently have a nikon stirling gameking 3.5x10x44
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Re: Deer/elk rifle
I'm going to tag on here as I was in the very same boat a few months ago.
You have received some excellent advice from the folks above. I'm not an expert by any means, but I've been deer hunting my whole life and handloading for about 15 and still learning something new every day.
Last year was my first year ever hunting with an elk tag in my pocket.
I owned an older Remington 700 270win that was the first center fire rifle I ever purchased. It was an absolute tack driver with 130gr projectiles and worked well for deer, but the heavier 150gr shot like garbage no matter what I did. I felt undergunned for Elk with that rifle, So I sold it this summer.
I've owned 300wm rifles in the past and didn't feel this was a great choice for an all around rifle as I've seen it absolutely deatroy deer when shot too close.
After much debate, I purchased my first 30-06. Savage 111 trophy hunter. With 180gr handloads, it groups at .60" @100yds.
I have been just tickled with this $500 rifle. I looked at every high end rifle I could look at but none fit me like I wanted, or had some issues I wouldn't expect or be happy with from a $900 rifle.
The one rifle that was a close contender was the Tikka T3x Superlite.
I punched my first Elk tag ever this year at 250yds with one shot. I also shot a deer with the same load at 150yds.
Haveing never owned or hunted with this cartridge previously, I have to say that I am thoroughly impressed. Plenty enough bang to put down an elk cleanly, but not so wiz bang fast that it destroys meat when hunting deer. I had more catastrophic damage on deer with my 130gr 270win than I witnessed with the 06.
On both of these hunts, I would not have felt undergunned with a 308win 165/168gr bullet of proper construction.
I've owned a 308win in the past, but never hunted with it. I chose the 30-06 over the 308 for the extra velocity as well as its ability to shoot the 180gr bullets better than some of the 308win rifles can (mine liked 168gr bullets).
Another aspect to consider is correct bullet selection. Too soft and it expands so rapidly that you waste deer meat or it doesn't penetrate the elk because all energy was dumped in rapid expansion.
You want a bullet with controlled expansion. Wether it's a partition, locked jacket to core, bonded jacket and core or a mono metal like the Barnes bullet. I chose the Hornady Interlock because it shot best in my rifle.
It punched straight through my elk with good expansion as well as put the deer down without destroying any meat.
The biggest consideration is, choose the rifle you shoot the best and gives you the most confidence in your ability.
It's better to have a 308win that you can hit your target at 400yds with certainty than it is to have a 338 win mag that you can't group at 100yds because the recoil is too much.
Happy hunting!
You have received some excellent advice from the folks above. I'm not an expert by any means, but I've been deer hunting my whole life and handloading for about 15 and still learning something new every day.
Last year was my first year ever hunting with an elk tag in my pocket.
I owned an older Remington 700 270win that was the first center fire rifle I ever purchased. It was an absolute tack driver with 130gr projectiles and worked well for deer, but the heavier 150gr shot like garbage no matter what I did. I felt undergunned for Elk with that rifle, So I sold it this summer.
I've owned 300wm rifles in the past and didn't feel this was a great choice for an all around rifle as I've seen it absolutely deatroy deer when shot too close.
After much debate, I purchased my first 30-06. Savage 111 trophy hunter. With 180gr handloads, it groups at .60" @100yds.
I have been just tickled with this $500 rifle. I looked at every high end rifle I could look at but none fit me like I wanted, or had some issues I wouldn't expect or be happy with from a $900 rifle.
The one rifle that was a close contender was the Tikka T3x Superlite.
I punched my first Elk tag ever this year at 250yds with one shot. I also shot a deer with the same load at 150yds.
Haveing never owned or hunted with this cartridge previously, I have to say that I am thoroughly impressed. Plenty enough bang to put down an elk cleanly, but not so wiz bang fast that it destroys meat when hunting deer. I had more catastrophic damage on deer with my 130gr 270win than I witnessed with the 06.
On both of these hunts, I would not have felt undergunned with a 308win 165/168gr bullet of proper construction.
I've owned a 308win in the past, but never hunted with it. I chose the 30-06 over the 308 for the extra velocity as well as its ability to shoot the 180gr bullets better than some of the 308win rifles can (mine liked 168gr bullets).
Another aspect to consider is correct bullet selection. Too soft and it expands so rapidly that you waste deer meat or it doesn't penetrate the elk because all energy was dumped in rapid expansion.
You want a bullet with controlled expansion. Wether it's a partition, locked jacket to core, bonded jacket and core or a mono metal like the Barnes bullet. I chose the Hornady Interlock because it shot best in my rifle.
It punched straight through my elk with good expansion as well as put the deer down without destroying any meat.
The biggest consideration is, choose the rifle you shoot the best and gives you the most confidence in your ability.
It's better to have a 308win that you can hit your target at 400yds with certainty than it is to have a 338 win mag that you can't group at 100yds because the recoil is too much.
Happy hunting!