Headspace measuring tool !!!UPDATE!!!

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Rigger28
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Headspace measuring tool !!!UPDATE!!!

Post by Rigger28 » Fri Feb 10, 2017 2:00 pm

My BLR .358 is getting seriously flattened primers when loaded with a mid-range load of 4064, WLR primer and a 200 grain hornady SP. I'm not getting any other pressure indicators. Factory ammo with the same bullet does not cause flattened primers. I think my RCBS FL die may be setting the shoulder back too far. Is it possible to set up my die to just barely bump the shoulder? Do I need to purchase a headspace measuring device? Thanks.

Update, I researched and found a way to ghetto rig a headspace gauge, but it requires a piece of freshly sized .45acp brass. I have a ton of .45 brass but no dies, would someone be willing to trade me a piece of sized brass for a piece or two of unsized? Brand doesn't matter as long as it isn't steel or aluminum cased. Thanks!

Call Turner
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Re: Headspace measuring tool !!!UPDATE!!!

Post by Call Turner » Fri Feb 10, 2017 4:56 pm

Sized your case length after being sized should be 2.015. To the base of the shoulder from the bottom should be 1.560. And to the top of the shoulder 1.651. Have you tried just neck sizing? WLR primers are on the lighter end so that should not be a problem. Do you weigh every load? What load book are you getting your loads from? IMR 4064 should load from 53.6 to 57.6 on the high side for a 200 gr bullet. Are you loading factory cases or forming them from 308 win brass?
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Rigger28
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Re: Headspace measuring tool !!!UPDATE!!!

Post by Rigger28 » Fri Feb 10, 2017 7:14 pm

Call Turner wrote:Sized your case length after being sized should be 2.015. To the base of the shoulder from the bottom should be 1.560. And to the top of the shoulder 1.651. Have you tried just neck sizing? WLR primers are on the lighter end so that should not be a problem. Do you weigh every load? What load book are you getting your loads from? IMR 4064 should load from 53.6 to 57.6 on the high side for a 200 gr bullet. Are you loading factory cases or forming them from 308 win brass?
Turner, thanks for the reply. I don't have a neck sizer for my .358, I do neck size all of my bolt rifle cartridges though. I hand weigh/trickle EVERY charge into my RCBS 505. For books I used my Hornady 5th edition, Lyman 49th and Hodgdon.com. I have no idea where you got a powder range of 53.6 to 57.6 but that's insanely higher than any data I have. The Hornady book shows 42.9 to 48.5, I loaded them at 46.0 grains with a COAL of 2.690". These are once fired .358 factory Hornady cases trimmed to 2.005" and resized in an RCBS FL die. I know the COAL is a hair long but that won't be an issue soon since I'm switching to the 220 grain Speer FN using win748 powder/large magnum rifle primer based out of the Speer #14 manual. Any help is very welcomed, Thanks.

Call Turner
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Re: Headspace measuring tool !!!UPDATE!!!

Post by Call Turner » Fri Feb 10, 2017 10:53 pm

This data is direct from the Sierra Manual. Still sitting in front of me. Test gun was a 358 win , BLR. If my data is correct you could be getting excessive pressure from too light of a load. The only difference is this load used a cci 200 primer which is also a little hotter. It also shows a coal at 2.780
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Rigger28
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Re: Headspace measuring tool !!!UPDATE!!!

Post by Rigger28 » Sat Feb 11, 2017 6:59 am

Call Turner wrote:This data is direct from the Sierra Manual. Still sitting in front of me. Test gun was a 358 win , BLR. If my data is correct you could be getting excessive pressure from too light of a load. The only difference is this load used a cci 200 primer which is also a little hotter. It also shows a coal at 2.780
Is the data in your Sierra manual for the flat based pro-hunter bullet or the boat tail game king? Usually a boat tail bullet will accept more powder. I don't see how I could get more that 48-49 grains of powder in a 358 case without seriously compressing it. I'm going to try the Speer load using win748 and a large magnum primer. I am a little nervous though, I don't need a gun blowing up on me. Thanks Turner, please let me know if you think of any other scenarios.

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Call Turner
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Re: Headspace measuring tool !!!UPDATE!!!

Post by Call Turner » Sat Feb 11, 2017 7:59 am

OOOOOPPPPPP"SSS My bad. I slipped a page and was on the 35 Whelen load . ( Pages stuck together) . With book in front of me again it reads as follows: IMR 4064 42.2 -50.3 gr max. Bothe accuracy and hunting loads were 49.1 gr , velocity 2500, 2775 ft.lbs. This is a 200 gr RN C.O.A.L. is 2.550. Again this is with a CCI 200 primer. The Sierra Boat Tail 225gr loads from 41.8 gr to 48.0 max with 4064 however IMR 4320 was listed as the most accurate powder for that bullet at a max of 48.9 gr The test gun was BLR. Again , sorry about the error, Whew :roll: :oops:
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Rigger28
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Re: Headspace measuring tool !!!UPDATE!!!

Post by Rigger28 » Sat Feb 11, 2017 10:28 am

Whew, glad we got that cleared up. Do you have any other suggestions regarding the flattened primers besides my headspacing being off? Thanks

Call Turner
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Re: Headspace measuring tool !!!UPDATE!!!

Post by Call Turner » Sat Feb 11, 2017 11:40 am

Do you have any other brass besides the Hornady in the pics? Also did you clean up the flash holes in the brass you reloaded? Most all flash holes are punched not drilled an a obstructed flash hole could mess up your loads. The primer pockets looked a little loose in the pic. Do they feel right when you seat your primers? I would stars by measuring my cases before and after sizing. Double check that your dies are set up right. Maybe try a CCI 200 primer next. Does that load shoot well in your rifle? Maybe check and see if another brand of brass has the same problem. Then maybe back your load down if it still exists. Possible that load isn't liked by your rifle. I have 2 338 win mags that don't like the same loads. I haven't had real good luck with Hornady brass. Possibly Winchester , Remington or Starline brass would have better primer pockets.
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Rigger28
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Re: Headspace measuring tool !!!UPDATE!!!

Post by Rigger28 » Sat Feb 11, 2017 12:53 pm

I clean the primer pockets every time I reload a cartridge and always scrape the flash hole with a large sewing needle just in case some tumbling media is hung up in there. I have a bunch of once fired Winchester brass I could try out I guess. The primers weren't "loose" feeling when I seated them and again, this was only once fired brass. I hate Hornady brass as well and I prefer Remington but unfortunately Remington doesn't make .358 ammo. This load shoots very well in my rifle and doesn't kick anymore than Hornady factory ammo. I will switch my cases/powder/primer/bullet and see if that works.thanks.

Call Turner
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Re: Headspace measuring tool !!!UPDATE!!!

Post by Call Turner » Sat Feb 11, 2017 1:32 pm

When changing your loads it is wise to only change one thing at a time so as to figure out what worked. Maybe brass first, or primers first , or drop a grain of powder , or ? So many variables but only one at a time. Keep me informed, you got me curious. Mike.
" Having you around is like losing 2 good men."

Rigger28
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Re: Headspace measuring tool !!!UPDATE!!!

Post by Rigger28 » Sat Feb 11, 2017 5:15 pm

Well, I think I'm an idiot. Of the 23 rounds I reloaded, I still have 10 that haven't been fired. 9 out of the 10 have primers that aren't seated deep enough, they all protrude enough that they create a "wobble" when placed case head down on the table. I'm hoping this is what's been causing my flattened primer issue. I'm gonna pull the bullets, dump the powder and seat the primers deeper and then reassemble with the same components. Is the Swenson property accessible yet?

Call Turner
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Re: Headspace measuring tool !!!UPDATE!!!

Post by Call Turner » Sat Feb 11, 2017 6:44 pm

only by foot. I've heard shooting up on stonelodge but with the warmer weather it might be kind of a greasy ride in.
" Having you around is like losing 2 good men."

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